I have a Netherland doe (first time litter for me but had a stillborn litter for previous owner) that is on day 31 today. She looks very distressed. She is slightly wet around her mouth, and is holding her head at a very odd angle. She keeps tilting her head back and pointing her nose upward. She is panting, and when she tries to walk she is very wobbly and almost stiff looking. What in the world is going on? What should I do?
Doe in labor - very distressed! Urgent! *Update* Pic Added!
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MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
Is it hot there? She sounds like she is in heat distress, or is having trouble breathing.
__________ Wed May 08, 2013 7:25 am __________
I would dampen her ears with tepid water.
Also crush up a Tums (or any calcium based antacid) and mix with water or Gatorade and syringe some into the corner of her mouth if she refuses to drink it. She could have pre-eclampsia, which is a calcium deficiency.
__________ Wed May 08, 2013 7:28 am __________
If you can see that she is actively having contractions, she may have a retained kit. This link is very helpful if that is the case:
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-breeding/retained-reabsorbed-stuck-kits-help/
__________ Wed May 08, 2013 7:25 am __________
I would dampen her ears with tepid water.
Also crush up a Tums (or any calcium based antacid) and mix with water or Gatorade and syringe some into the corner of her mouth if she refuses to drink it. She could have pre-eclampsia, which is a calcium deficiency.
__________ Wed May 08, 2013 7:28 am __________
If you can see that she is actively having contractions, she may have a retained kit. This link is very helpful if that is the case:
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-breeding/retained-reabsorbed-stuck-kits-help/
Ok, I've given her some water mixed with honey and she seemed to improve at first but she looks bad again now. She is very shaky and twitchy. I'm afraid it's pre-eclampsia. Is it too late for her to make a recovery if I can get calcium in her now?
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
It wont hurt to try. Any calcium will do- calcium vitamin tabs, calcium livestock drench, Tums... she might be too far along to eat the Tums, which is why I recommended syringing crushed tabs into her mouth.
I hope she pulls through. :clover:
I hope she pulls through. :clover:
My friend is on her way with a calcium tablet. We'll crush it and mix it with a bit of water and syringe it in her mouth. Thanks for all of your help. I sure hope she pulls through too. She's very sweet, and a beautiful blue point that should be carrying blue tort kits. 
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
Is she still drooling? She may be overheated due to the stress of labor.
I would get some oil on/in her vent to help her pass the kit. If you have a rubber bulb syringe (commonly called a "snot sucker" by moms), you can squirt some into her vagina.
I would get some oil on/in her vent to help her pass the kit. If you have a rubber bulb syringe (commonly called a "snot sucker" by moms), you can squirt some into her vagina.
I'm not sure if she's interested in eating or anything but might also try some herbs that help stimulate contractions. I know parsley is on and there are others listed on this forum too,can't remember off the top of my head what they are, sorry.
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
Good call, Mystang. :clap2:
She doesn't sound in condition where she will want to eat, but just in case:
http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm
*I am putting this under Rabbit Links, titled "Herbs That Cause Contractions"
She doesn't sound in condition where she will want to eat, but just in case:
http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm
*I am putting this under Rabbit Links, titled "Herbs That Cause Contractions"
I can't tell if she's drooling or if it's still some of the sticky honey water on her face.
I'm sure I have a "snot sucker" around here somewhere! LOL I'll try that, but I'm not even sure she's really in labor.
She's in the nest box now but just lying there.
She has apparently been fighting with her neighboring doe. Her neighbor has a scratch on her nose, and I realized this morning that Moon's (the doe in distress) teeth are no longer lined up properly. Could it be because she's grinding them in pain or did she maybe pull them on the wire? I just bought Moon about a month ago, and so I know her teeth were fine. I knew she and Bluebell had been fussing with each other and now I really regret not moving one of them.
I tried offering her some dandelion greens, Mystang, but she isn't interested in eating at all.
I'm sure I have a "snot sucker" around here somewhere! LOL I'll try that, but I'm not even sure she's really in labor.
She's in the nest box now but just lying there.
She has apparently been fighting with her neighboring doe. Her neighbor has a scratch on her nose, and I realized this morning that Moon's (the doe in distress) teeth are no longer lined up properly.
Could it be because she's grinding them in pain or did she maybe pull them on the wire? I just bought Moon about a month ago, and so I know her teeth were fine. I knew she and Bluebell had been fussing with each other and now I really regret not moving one of them.I tried offering her some dandelion greens, Mystang, but she isn't interested in eating at all.
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
I think tooth grinding would just wear the teeth down. She probably pulled them on the wire.
My JW doe had a stuck kit recently, and it was very obvious that she was having contractions. She was sitting on the wire, kind of hunched up, but upright on her front legs. I could see her vulva bulging slightly and moving with each contraction.
You should give her electrolytes. This link has a good recipe, and I especially like the ideas of using molasses and pureed banana:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5875270_make-el ... ution.html
My JW doe had a stuck kit recently, and it was very obvious that she was having contractions. She was sitting on the wire, kind of hunched up, but upright on her front legs. I could see her vulva bulging slightly and moving with each contraction.
You should give her electrolytes. This link has a good recipe, and I especially like the ideas of using molasses and pureed banana:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5875270_make-el ... ution.html
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
Nonsense, Mystang!
I've only dealt with this once myself, and Summit passed the kit before I was able to do anything for her.
Your suggestion for herbs was excellent, and something I failed to mention.
Teamwork is what RT is all about! :cheerleader: The more brains working together, the better chance of a positive outcome!
I put both the herb and electrolyte solution links in Rabbit Links so we can find them faster when we need them.
I've only dealt with this once myself, and Summit passed the kit before I was able to do anything for her.
Your suggestion for herbs was excellent, and something I failed to mention.
Teamwork is what RT is all about! :cheerleader: The more brains working together, the better chance of a positive outcome!
I put both the herb and electrolyte solution links in Rabbit Links so we can find them faster when we need them.
How's it going now?
Sorry I didn't have a chance to get back on here yesterday and update. My friend and I gave Moon the calcium with a syringe and she was able to swallow it, so we watched her for awhile to see if she would improve at all. She did not. The whole body tremors seemed to get worse and she was still tilting her head upward. She would try to move around occasionally, but would just stumble and fall. She was no longer grinding her teeth and they realigned somehow! At this point she was shaking and twitching so much that her teeth were chattering though. She was just pitiful to watch. It became clear that she wasn't going to pull through, so we made the difficult decision to put her down and attempt to save the babies.
We gathered our supplies and made a make shift operating table in the bunny barn. We knew we had to work quickly once she had been put down if we wanted live babies. We had old towels ready and pre cut threads for tying cords all laid out. She was much easier to put down than my older Holland doe that we did in December and she only twitched once afterwards. I remember reading that if you poke their eyes and they don't blink they're truly gone, so I did that and we were confident it was OK to begin the surgery! I had purchased a scalpel at the feed mill just to have on hand so we used that, and since she was only a year old she was much easier to open up than Victoria. (Some of you may remember that we attempted this same thing with my Holland doe, Victoria, but she ended up not being pregnant. She had pyometra.)
Anyway, as soon as the abdominal cavity was opened her uterus came spilling out and looked like stuffed sausage! She had 2 babies in each horn and we quickly and carefully opened the uterus. At first the babies looked dead and underdeveloped, but it was because of the sacs they were still in. As soon as I rubbed one with a towel the sac came off and I realized it was a normal kit. After just a few seconds of rubbing it began moving and squeaking! We were ecstatic! We each were working on babies at the same time and within just a minute or so we had all 4 babies wiggling and squeaking! I'm still just amazed that we did it! I really hated to lose Moon, but it isn't a total loss now that we have 4 of her kits. I had bred 4 does on the same day, so I fostered all 4 babies over to Ivory, a Holland that had delivered yesterday morning. She ended up with only 3 surviving kits, and she easily fed a litter of 6 last time, so I'm sure she'll be ok with 7. We flipped her to let the kits nurse a few minutes after they were born and they all nursed. We flipped her again a few hours later because a couple kits didn't look very plump after the first time. I figured they might just need to rest and warm up. They looked much better after the second feeding.
We were able to turn it into a bit of a science lesson for all the kids too. They didn't watch the surgery, but we were able to show them the placentas and explain about all of that. It was pretty cool to see each of the 4 tiny placentas. Since Moon couldn't eat them we fed them to our pregnant kitty. Figured it couldn't hurt her and might help!
As much as I hated putting Moon down, I'm so glad we did. It would have been a shame to lose her and all 4 babies. I'll get pics and post them later today. I think we might have 2 REWs, a blue point, and a blue tort. All of those are colors we could use and need! I also have another doe that should be kindling anytime so I guess I need to get off of here and go check on everyone!
Thank you MSD and Mystang both for all of your help! And thank you Faith for checking in on the situation! RT is wonderful!
It became clear that she wasn't going to pull through, so we made the difficult decision to put her down and attempt to save the babies.We gathered our supplies and made a make shift operating table in the bunny barn. We knew we had to work quickly once she had been put down if we wanted live babies. We had old towels ready and pre cut threads for tying cords all laid out. She was much easier to put down than my older Holland doe that we did in December and she only twitched once afterwards. I remember reading that if you poke their eyes and they don't blink they're truly gone, so I did that and we were confident it was OK to begin the surgery! I had purchased a scalpel at the feed mill just to have on hand so we used that, and since she was only a year old she was much easier to open up than Victoria. (Some of you may remember that we attempted this same thing with my Holland doe, Victoria, but she ended up not being pregnant. She had pyometra.)
Anyway, as soon as the abdominal cavity was opened her uterus came spilling out and looked like stuffed sausage! She had 2 babies in each horn and we quickly and carefully opened the uterus. At first the babies looked dead and underdeveloped, but it was because of the sacs they were still in. As soon as I rubbed one with a towel the sac came off and I realized it was a normal kit. After just a few seconds of rubbing it began moving and squeaking! We were ecstatic! We each were working on babies at the same time and within just a minute or so we had all 4 babies wiggling and squeaking! I'm still just amazed that we did it!
I really hated to lose Moon, but it isn't a total loss now that we have 4 of her kits. I had bred 4 does on the same day, so I fostered all 4 babies over to Ivory, a Holland that had delivered yesterday morning. She ended up with only 3 surviving kits, and she easily fed a litter of 6 last time, so I'm sure she'll be ok with 7. We flipped her to let the kits nurse a few minutes after they were born and they all nursed. We flipped her again a few hours later because a couple kits didn't look very plump after the first time. I figured they might just need to rest and warm up. They looked much better after the second feeding.We were able to turn it into a bit of a science lesson for all the kids too. They didn't watch the surgery, but we were able to show them the placentas and explain about all of that. It was pretty cool to see each of the 4 tiny placentas. Since Moon couldn't eat them we fed them to our pregnant kitty. Figured it couldn't hurt her and might help!
As much as I hated putting Moon down, I'm so glad we did. It would have been a shame to lose her and all 4 babies. I'll get pics and post them later today. I think we might have 2 REWs, a blue point, and a blue tort. All of those are colors we could use and need! I also have another doe that should be kindling anytime so I guess I need to get off of here and go check on everyone!
Thank you MSD and Mystang both for all of your help! And thank you Faith for checking in on the situation!
RT is wonderful!
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
I am sorry you lost Moon, but very glad you saved the kits.
Kudos to both you and your friend for doing an emergency C-section! That is quite an accomplishment.
I would recommend giving all of your does Tums or another calcium source starting a couple of days before they are due to kindle. They will eat it if and when they need it, and then you can place another tablet in the cage. Rabbits excrete excess calcium in their urine, so it wont cause any problems in the short term for them to eat a couple if they want it. Rabbits that are constantly on a very high calcium diet can develop kidney stones, however.
I actually mix oyster shell into my grain mix so my rabbits always have access to calcium. The oyster shell I have now is processed so it looks like little white rocks, which has very irritating to me when I first opened the bag- I had only ever seen it in fragmented shell form. But it turned out to be a good form for the rabbits because there is no loss through the bottom of the feeders.
Interestingly, some of the rabbits will ignore the calcium for a while and there will be 15-20 "pebbles" in their feeder one day, and the next day they will all be gone.
Good luck with the little popples! I am looking forward to seeing them. (Hint, hint!)
Fingers crossed that you wont have any more kindling issues for a good long while! :clover:
Kudos to both you and your friend for doing an emergency C-section! That is quite an accomplishment.
I would recommend giving all of your does Tums or another calcium source starting a couple of days before they are due to kindle. They will eat it if and when they need it, and then you can place another tablet in the cage. Rabbits excrete excess calcium in their urine, so it wont cause any problems in the short term for them to eat a couple if they want it. Rabbits that are constantly on a very high calcium diet can develop kidney stones, however.
I actually mix oyster shell into my grain mix so my rabbits always have access to calcium. The oyster shell I have now is processed so it looks like little white rocks, which has very irritating to me when I first opened the bag- I had only ever seen it in fragmented shell form. But it turned out to be a good form for the rabbits because there is no loss through the bottom of the feeders.
Interestingly, some of the rabbits will ignore the calcium for a while and there will be 15-20 "pebbles" in their feeder one day, and the next day they will all be gone.
Good luck with the little popples! I am looking forward to seeing them. (Hint, hint!)
Fingers crossed that you wont have any more kindling issues for a good long while! :clover:
AmysMacdog
Well-known member
I'm so sorry you lost Moon [[HUGS]] but wow! Congrats on saving the babies! I know that was hard to do and I'm so happy it had a happy outcome.
I'm very sorry that you ended up having to put Moon down but it sounds like you made the right decision and made the best out of a bad situation. Very good with that. I'm happy that you were able to save 4 kits and that you had another doe available for transfer. Please let us know how they continue to do.
I'm SO sorry about Moon But I'm amazed at what you did to save those little babies!! Congratulations!! And I can't wait to see pictures of the little miracle popples
But I'm amazed at what you did to save those little babies!! Congratulations!! And I can't wait to see pictures of the little miracle popples 
