Did I discover something new?

[Rabbits by Accident]

Those panels look really interesting.
My only concern is that the holes look very small. I have 1X 1/2 wire and the poop doesn't even go down that half the time. I have large rabbits, 11 to 13 lb. If you are raising meat rabbits you might want bigger holes in the flooring.

Just a note about Pressure washing- I don't move any rabbits out I just spray where they are not. Never had one get in the way,. My rabbits are very used to being handled and having their cages dealt with. They have kind of large cages though but even the smaller cages I just spray one side and then I scoot them to the wet side and I spray the other side. I only do it in the summer when it's hot I would never spray them out in the winter.

good luck with your cages! I use heavy wire dog kennels because we have feral dogs and coyotes around.

 

[Scooter1A]

Those panels look really interesting.
My only concern is that the holes look very small. I have 1X 1/2 wire and the poop doesn't even go down that half the time. I have large rabbits, 11 to 13 lb. If you are raising meat rabbits you might want bigger holes in the flooring.

Just a note about Pressure washing- I don't move any rabbits out I just spray where they are not. Never had one get in the way,. My rabbits are very used to being handled and having their cages dealt with. They have kind of large cages though but even the smaller cages I just spray one side and then I scoot them to the wet side and I spray the other side. I only do it in the summer when it's hot I would never spray them out in the winter.

good luck with your cages! I use heavy wire dog kennels because we have feral dogs and coyotes around.

thats good advice.

 

[bitbyter]

Those panels look really interesting.
My only concern is that the holes look very small. I have 1X 1/2 wire and the poop doesn't even go down that half the time. I have large rabbits, 11 to 13 lb. If you are raising meat rabbits you might want bigger holes in the flooring.

Just a note about Pressure washing- I don't move any rabbits out I just spray where they are not. Never had one get in the way,. My rabbits are very used to being handled and having their cages dealt with. They have kind of large cages though but even the smaller cages I just spray one side and then I scoot them to the wet side and I spray the other side. I only do it in the summer when it's hot I would never spray them out in the winter.

good luck with your cages! I use heavy wire dog kennels because we have feral dogs and coyotes around.

The holes are slightly larger than 1/2". You recommend larger but there is a line there between poop being able to fall through, protection for the rabbits and comfort for their feet. I thought 1" x 1/2" was the standard size for flooring?

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

The holes are slightly larger than 1/2". You recommend larger but there is a line there between poop being able to fall through, protection for the rabbits and comfort for their feet. I thought 1" x 1/2" was the standard size for flooring?

yes, that is the size I have, and I wouldn't go any larger. But the poop still doesn't always fit through 1" x 1/2", as I said I have big ol' gals. The males don't seem to have the problem. I have actually kept a full grown male in a cage with 1/2" x 1/2" wire and it wasn't a problem. It would not work with my does. It looks like the plastic is only 1/2"x1/2"? You could always saw out every other crossbar (that's the kind of thing I do LOL)

Generally, if it doesn't fall through, they will create one area that has a poop pile, and it's not hard to clean out. I actually use a kid's sand 'hoe' to clean the cages. I keep shelves, some with plastic toppers (so the pee/poop don't fall down on the babies) and the hoe & a dustpan make cleaning them a snap. I like them to have shelves & places for them to stretch out. I originally thought they would be a mom's escape from the babies, but by the time they hop out of the nestbox, they're pretty much able to jump onto a 12-15" high shelf as shown by my pic LOL.

One clarification - I mistakenly said I don't move them out when I pressure wash - I meant just spraying hard spray with a hose. I don't think I would actually pressure wash with a machine with the rabbit inside. I only pressure wash every year or so. If you keep up with things, the cages stay pretty clean. The blaster setting on the hose works really well, although it does use a bit more water.

If you're interested, I have a page with my rabbitry set up here - MONEY-SAVING RABBIT TIPS

Have fun, don't stress out, it's easier than it seems & the rabbits are great stress relievers. They're really cute and cuddly as babies, but fortunately they become irritating teenagers & you don't mind butchering (most of them) so much LOL. (I do manage to sell all of mine, so I've only had to face freezer camp day one time.)

 

[bitbyter]

yes, that is the size I have, and I wouldn't go any larger. But the poop still doesn't always fit through 1" x 1/2", as I said I have big ol' gals. The males don't seem to have the problem. I have actually kept a full grown male in a cage with 1/2" x 1/2" wire and it wasn't a problem. It would not work with my does. It looks like the plastic is only 1/2"x1/2"? You could always saw out every other crossbar (that's the kind of thing I do LOL)

Generally, if it doesn't fall through, they will create one area that has a poop pile, and it's not hard to clean out. I actually use a kid's sand 'hoe' to clean the cages. I keep shelves, some with plastic toppers (so the pee/poop don't fall down on the babies) and the hoe & a dustpan make cleaning them a snap. I like them to have shelves & places for them to stretch out. I originally thought they would be a mom's escape from the babies, but by the time they hop out of the nestbox, they're pretty much able to jump onto a 12-15" high shelf as shown by my pic LOL.

One clarification - I mistakenly said I don't move them out when I pressure wash - I meant just spraying hard spray with a hose. I don't think I would actually pressure wash with a machine with the rabbit inside. I only pressure wash every year or so. If you keep up with things, the cages stay pretty clean. The blaster setting on the hose works really well, although it does use a bit more water.

If you're interested, I have a page with my rabbitry set up here - MONEY-SAVING RABBIT TIPS

Have fun, don't stress out, it's easier than it seems & the rabbits are great stress relievers. They're really cute and cuddly as babies, but fortunately they become irritating teenagers & you don't mind butchering (most of them) so much LOL. (I do manage to sell all of mine, so I've only had to face freezer camp day one time.)

I read through your money-saving tips and saw that you are looking for square buckets. Check with any grocery stores that have a bakery (or stand-alone bakeries). Some of the ingredients they use come in square buckets and they'll give them away free (you just have to clean them out).

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

I read through your money-saving tips and saw that you are looking for square buckets. Check with any grocery stores that have a bakery (or stand-alone bakeries). Some of the ingredients they use come in square buckets and they'll give them away free (you just have to clean them out).

Oh wow! That is so great to know! Thank you for that. I have been trying to find people with cats - I used to get the buckets from my sons before they moved cross country. Bakery! yay! Thanks

 

[eco2pia]

Oh wow! That is so great to know! Thank you for that. I have been trying to find people with cats - I used to get the buckets from my sons before they moved cross country. Bakery! yay! Thanks

restaurants too sometimes--used to get mayo in square buckets

 

[judymac]

. I'm currently trying to think of a way to engineer a small gap to allow the sweeping out of loose hay

I love the idea of being able to sweep out hay, but there are two issues: 1) if hay can fall out, so can a newborn kit that has been drug out of (or never made it into) the nestbox. 2) Hay will be in all directions and doesn't like to fall neatly down a slot, sadly.

I use those thinner plastic vented sitting boards as emergency floor repair until the pen bottoms can be replaced. They tend to build up manure much, much quicker than wire. Makes a good inducement to repair the pen flooring quickly, though.

As to wire flooring being expensive: I am still using wire pens made of good quality heavy wire that I purchased used thirty years ago. I have also purchased new some of those ready-to-pop-together wire cage kits from the feed store that were junk, after only a few years they had major issues. Investing in good wire is worth the money.

The biggest problem with wire flooring is allowing manure to build up in the first place, the urine acids eat through the wire quickly, especially on thin wire. I find a stiff brush on a long handle lets me remove any shed fiber easily, before it can accumulate manure (with angora rabbits, this can be an issue). Keeping the rabbits groomed when they start to molt also keeps the fiber off the wire, preventive maintenance.

Over the years I've even moved away from even having anything under the cage. I had cages resting on pipes and even those rounded surfaces collect hair, poop and urine.

I so agree with this. We started with two 2x4" boards spread between two sawhorses to set the rabbit cages on. The rest of the pen would be clean, but where the wire rested on the boards for support got messy easily. Suspended cages are so much easier to deal with, and so much easier to clean under.

I have used pens with the dropped nest boxes in the floor, and did not like them. The weight of the growing rabbits pulled the floor down in the middle, and the rabbits were much more likely to escape the nestbox. I thought they would be safer, as they could more easily wander back into the nestbox, but they actually ended up OUTSIDE the nestbox more often. It also puts the kits in a more dangerous position beneath the pen, as far as predators go, instead of safely in a secure strong box inside the pen. If you have no predator issues, be very thankful. For those of us with a wide array of potential predators, it becomes an issue.

I just use some of that very thick plastic for shelving in the pantry, like they use for milk crates. Seemed so sturdy. It not only bent under the pressure, it cracked. I find plastic has issues of its own, scratching, and yes, cracking in cold weather. Of all the things I've used in the last forty years for rabbits, nothing has beat good old fashioned heavy duty wire. It lasts for me, and is easy to handle.

Just another thought, I realize that there are folks that sanitize constantly, but I've found that the rabbits seemed to be healthier when I wasn't constantly killing off the good/neutral bacteria, leaving behind only the small percentage of bad bacteria that now had no competition. I haven't found all that sanitizing to be beneficial, except when you are cleaning a pen that has been exposed to a live disease.

I also have found that constant washing leaves a very humid environment, which can be difficult on respiratory systems, and make it harder to feel cool and comfy in the hot weather. Hot and humid is much harder to take than a dry heat.

Sometimes we make a lot more work for ourselves than necessary. It has been much easier to simply go down the pens once a week or so with a scrub brush to remove any little loose hair or debris. If you end up with a manure build-up starting, the quicker it gets dealt with, the easier it will be to handle. If you find a rabbit that is much messier than the others, I consider that a ding against using that rabbit as a future breeder, it may have some trait that is encouraging the problem.

Scrubbing anything in the winter cold is unpleasant. Your hands get quickly chilled, rubber gloves can be difficult to work in, and they don't keep you warm. The warm and also waterproof gloves I've tried have been much too bulky to try to pick up pieces of hair from the flooring.

My rabbits love to chew on wood, so I avoid wood pens when possible, they're also much heavier to move around. Yes, over the years I've used many different systems and many different materials, and so far, heavy gauge all-wire pens have been the best choice. I actually like the same 1/2" x 1" flooring as sides and roof as well, to keep rodents/snakes/weasels out of the pens completely (they go right through the 1" x 2" normal sides.)

Of course, I have a friend that swears by the colony system, and it works really well for her. That eliminated all of the cages, end of problem. My barn is not sufficiently predator proof to permit that, but maybe someday. . .I have had successful colonies in the past, and do appreciate NOT having to deal with pens at all.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I love the idea of being able to sweep out hay, but there are two issues: 1) if hay can fall out, so can a newborn kit that has been drug out of (or never made it into) the nestbox. 2) Hay will be in all directions and doesn't like to fall neatly down a slot, sadly.

I use those thinner plastic vented sitting boards as emergency floor repair until the pen bottoms can be replaced. They tend to build up manure much, much quicker than wire. Makes a good inducement to repair the pen flooring quickly, though.

As to wire flooring being expensive: I am still using wire pens made of good quality heavy wire that I purchased used thirty years ago. I have also purchased new some of those ready-to-pop-together wire cage kits from the feed store that were junk, after only a few years they had major issues. Investing in good wire is worth the money.

The biggest problem with wire flooring is allowing manure to build up in the first place, the urine acids eat through the wire quickly, especially on thin wire. I find a stiff brush on a long handle lets me remove any shed fiber easily, before it can accumulate manure (with angora rabbits, this can be an issue). Keeping the rabbits groomed when they start to molt also keeps the fiber off the wire, preventive maintenance.

I so agree with this. We started with two 2x4" boards spread between two sawhorses to set the rabbit cages on. The rest of the pen would be clean, but where the wire rested on the boards for support got messy easily. Suspended cages are so much easier to deal with, and so much easier to clean under.

I have used pens with the dropped nest boxes in the floor, and did not like them. The weight of the growing rabbits pulled the floor down in the middle, and the rabbits were much more likely to escape the nestbox. I thought they would be safer, as they could more easily wander back into the nestbox, but they actually ended up OUTSIDE the nestbox more often. It also puts the kits in a more dangerous position beneath the pen, as far as predators go, instead of safely in a secure strong box inside the pen. If you have no predator issues, be very thankful. For those of us with a wide array of potential predators, it becomes an issue.

I just use some of that very thick plastic for shelving in the pantry, like they use for milk crates. Seemed so sturdy. It not only bent under the pressure, it cracked. I find plastic has issues of its own, scratching, and yes, cracking in cold weather. Of all the things I've used in the last forty years for rabbits, nothing has beat good old fashioned heavy duty wire. It lasts for me, and is easy to handle.

Just another thought, I realize that there are folks that sanitize constantly, but I've found that the rabbits seemed to be healthier when I wasn't constantly killing off the good/neutral bacteria, leaving behind only the small percentage of bad bacteria that now had no competition. I haven't found all that sanitizing to be beneficial, except when you are cleaning a pen that has been exposed to a live disease.

I also have found that constant washing leaves a very humid environment, which can be difficult on respiratory systems, and make it harder to feel cool and comfy in the hot weather. Hot and humid is much harder to take than a dry heat.

Sometimes we make a lot more work for ourselves than necessary. It has been much easier to simply go down the pens once a week or so with a scrub brush to remove any little loose hair or debris. If you end up with a manure build-up starting, the quicker it gets dealt with, the easier it will be to handle. If you find a rabbit that is much messier than the others, I consider that a ding against using that rabbit as a future breeder, it may have some trait that is encouraging the problem.

Scrubbing anything in the winter cold is unpleasant. Your hands get quickly chilled, rubber gloves can be difficult to work in, and they don't keep you warm. The warm and also waterproof gloves I've tried have been much too bulky to try to pick up pieces of hair from the flooring.

My rabbits love to chew on wood, so I avoid wood pens when possible, they're also much heavier to move around. Yes, over the years I've used many different systems and many different materials, and so far, heavy gauge all-wire pens have been the best choice. I actually like the same 1/2" x 1" flooring as sides and roof as well, to keep rodents/snakes/weasels out of the pens completely (they go right through the 1" x 2" normal sides.)

Of course, I have a friend that swears by the colony system, and it works really well for her. That eliminated all of the cages, end of problem. My barn is not sufficiently predator proof to permit that, but maybe someday. . .I have had successful colonies in the past, and do appreciate NOT having to deal with pens at all.

Yes to all of this - over-sanitizing, winter washing miseries, wood issues, and good quality wire!

I especially appreciate your sharing your experiences with drop-down nest boxes. I've been tempted for years to give that a try, but everything you report makes perfect sense - thank you!

 

[judymac]

While I was visiting the bunnies this evening, I noticed a plastic sitting board has its corners chewed off, and the edges of the plastic feed bowls are all chewed off as well. I'm not a big fan of plastic, but occasionally it's an easy solution to an emergency problem. But, as this visit shows, plastic isn't always safe around rabbits. I learned not to use plastic baling twine to hang bunny pens, the rabbits chew the plastic, and suddenly the pen is either on the ground or hanging sideways. The twine is free, strong, and easy to use, but not always a good choice. Not all rabbits are chewers, but there's always a few. . .

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

While I was visiting the bunnies this evening, I noticed a plastic sitting board has its corners chewed off, and the edges of the plastic feed bowls are all chewed off as well. I'm not a big fan of plastic, but occasionally it's an easy solution to an emergency problem. But, as this visit shows, plastic isn't always safe around rabbits. I learned not to use plastic baling twine to hang bunny pens, the rabbits chew the plastic, and suddenly the pen is either on the ground or hanging sideways. The twine is free, strong, and easy to use, but not always a good choice. Not all rabbits are chewers, but there's always a few. . .

My Mini Rex has a big plastic litterbox that he uses very well, but he chews it all the time (better than his bars though). Never find any shreds in or around it or in his poop. Dunno how he keeps doing it

 

[dizzybumblebee]

For outdoor hutches i wouldn't want them to be the only thing between bunny and anything curious/hungry.
I can get something like this here that can handle weight, no-cut to size restingboard like pattern. But i will have droppans under them so something pushing them up for instance won't be a problem.
Also i found that plastic tends to get brittle with cold, indoors they'd be fine i suspect, but outside?

Unless these plastic floors come in a larger size I can't see how you can use them with larger rabbits. My cages are 24x36 inchs for American Chinchilla rabbits; a meat/fur breed.
How will you support the flooring? What keeps the rabbits from pulling it up?
I use resting boards in my cages that have tabs that fit into the wire floor. My lovely silly rabbits can pull them out, They also chew them to bits.
Currently decent wire floors is really hard to come by. Unless your willing to import. I spoke with some cage makers at the ARBA National Convention, they are importing their wire from Italy right now.

 

[dizzybumblebee]

I think with a pressure washer they will be fine...but I cannot picture actually moving all my rabbits and pressure washing my whole set up every other month, let alone weekly. Where would I be putting them? It is lucky if it happens annually in the heat of summer, definitely not doing it in winter, nothing would ever be dry again in Seattle!

If you have it so that they can pop out and you can clean one space at a time, that might work well, but it still sounds like a lot of rabbit moving to me.

The key is knowing what YOU will be comfortable with. I am well acquainted with my own laziness/busyness. I know how to work with that, instead of against it.

My advice will work well for similarly lazy/busy folk--I front load my effort a lot, so I make things expensive and or difficult to build once, because I know that when the garden is producing, and it is crunch time at work, and I am working 50h a week, and then a dog gets sick, and a car breaks down, I am going to be too busy to do much else, so the buns/chickens/ducks need to be able to be clean and fed and watered with minimum input from me when the stuff hits the fan in my life.

If I were you I would get one or two of those and stick it in a cage with a rabbit as a floor mat and see how badly they clog. maybe we are all paranoid. If they really are used in production facilities in china, I can't imagine they are too bad, that seems like it would make them pointless pretty quick otherwise. Commercial operations usually prioritize efficiency, right?

Over time they will likely need replacing, but so will most kinds of flooring. It does seem like they could clog up...

In an urban environment racoons are the most strong things that can climb...Dogs are much worse. If your yard is not fenced with a 6 foot dog proof fence already, you will want a second floor of heavy 1x2 wire mesh 3 inches under your primary floor. This will prevent dogs from coming up underneath.

I lost my whole first herd to a pair of german shepherds in the middle of the night. The worst part is that of course they don't kill the rabbits, just maim them, leaving you to finish the job on a bunch of terrified broken bleeding animals. Worst rabbit memory ever.

That is a horrible thing to happen. I've known several people who lost whole herds to dogs. I've also seen someone's caged chicken torn to bits by something. Never knew what though cause there is a lot of critters around her farm. Racoons, coyote, possum, even cougar. It is a semi farm, semi town area that has gradually been built up of the last 25 years. It is amazing what all has adapted and lives there

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

What happened with the plastic flooring? Did you get it? Did it work? Does the poop fit through? Inquiring minds want to know.

Liz

 

[bitbyter]

What happened with the plastic flooring? Did you get it? Did it work? Does the poop fit through? Inquiring minds want to know.

Liz

Unfortunately, my rabbit plan is on hold for now.