Deja vu... :(

[MamaMandy]

Well, Victoria (broken tort Holland) had her babies tonight on day 29. Right now the count is 6 dead and one living. Among the stillborn were 2 broken blacks, 1 tort and 3 white which I am assuming were REW's or Sable Point...so heartbreaking! The one living is another broken black (I was really hoping for one!) that I found quite chilled but active. I've warmed him up and now have him on a towel that is on a heating pad on the lowest setting. Since there are no siblings to help keep him warm I figured I shouldn't leave him in the nest box. It's getting cool at night here now. He seems fairly healthy...his belly looks full. As I was rubbing him to warm him, he peed so I'm guessing maybe he nursed already? If he makes it til morning I plan on taking him back out for her to feed again. Which brings me to another point...Victoria isn't looking the best. She's out of the nest box and stretched out but is still breathing a little heavily and just doesn't seem to be relaxed. It's possible she's not done I guess. Her backside and underside is quite bloody...don't they normally clean themselves up when they're all done? She also still looks a bit chubby but I noticed her spine feels more prominent than usual. Maybe that's normal after pregnancy? If, God forbid, something should happen to her I have two other does (a Holland and Netherland) that are still nursing almost 7 week old kits. Could I allow the living baby to nurse from one of them if I held the doe? I'm sure the milk changes as the babies grow just as it does in humans, but I'm thinking it would be better to let it have any sort of rabbit milk vs. formula of some sort. I just can't believe this is happening with Victoria...she had multiple litters for the breeder and one successful one for me last year. Does this tend to happen when they go too long between litters? I understood when her daughter Ivory lost a litter of 7 this summer because it was her first, but I don't get why it happened to a proven doe. Also, Victoria is 4 yrs old...is she too old? Any thoughts on all of this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Miss M]

I've warmed him up and now have him on a towel that is on a heating pad on the lowest setting. Since there are no siblings to help keep him warm I figured I shouldn't leave him in the nest box.

You are right; if she has no more live kits, you will need to keep the little singleton warm. Make sure to provide a spot that isn't as warm, so he can migrate to it if he gets hot.

He seems fairly healthy...his belly looks full. As I was rubbing him to warm him, he peed so I'm guessing maybe he nursed already?

They don't normally get fed the first time that quickly... I imagine that (like human infants) the kidneys are already processing when the baby is born, which would explain him peeing so soon. You will need to stimulate him to pee at least each time he nurses. You can rub the parts involved with a warm, damp cotton ball or something until he pees. Baby bunnies would normally get this stimulation from their wiggly siblings, and singletons don't have that advantage.

If he makes it til morning I plan on taking him back out for her to feed again.

You can take him to her for feeding twice a day (or more, if he's having trouble). You can flip Victoria on her back and put him on her belly, if she will allow it. I've tried it, and ended up with flying kits, but others have done it with success.

Victoria isn't looking the best. She's out of the nest box and stretched out but is still breathing a little heavily and just doesn't seem to be relaxed. It's possible she's not done I guess. Her backside and underside is quite bloody...don't they normally clean themselves up when they're all done? She also still looks a bit chubby but I noticed her spine feels more prominent than usual. Maybe that's normal after pregnancy?

There is normally a little blood, but "quite bloody" sounds like a good bit more blood than usual. They do normally clean themselves and the babies and nest up when they're done. I don't know about the spine bit. She does sound like she might not be finished, or something has gone wrong. Day 29 is a bit early. You might try giving her a fruity Tums to correct any calcium issues, and help her finish if she hasn't. If she does not eat it, then she either doesn't need it, or is in distress... and you have to be the judge.

If, God forbid, something should happen to her I have two other does (a Holland and Netherland) that are still nursing almost 7 week old kits. Could I allow the living baby to nurse from one of them if I held the doe?

Yes, you can do this.

Does this tend to happen when they go too long between litters?..... Also, Victoria is 4 yrs old...is she too old?

From the experience of others on this forum, things like this can happen when there is a long span between litters. I am about to find out myself, as I have just bred 3 does that haven't been bred in nearly a year now, because right about the time I would have bred again, I realized we would be moving, so I did not breed. I know that I may very well have trouble this time around.

4 years old is getting up there for bearing litters, on average. However, it does depend on the doe. If she recovers well, you could try breeding her back and see what comes of it.

I hope this is some help! I hope that Victoria heals up and turns out to be fine! Please keep us posted!

 

[skysthelimit]

Sorry about this. You have good advice from Miss M. When I raised my singleton, I brought the nest in. The doe fed her quite well, I was almost afraid she would be overfed. She did well with taking care of her.

 

[MamaMandy]

Thank you both for all the info! The little one made it through the night. I took it out to allow it to nurse and found another dead kit on the wire (a fairly large one!) and Victoria is in the nestbox again. She was grunting some and grinding her teeth. I really hope she's ok. I'll check again soon because the little one needs to eat. Or maybe I should just pull one of the other nursing does out and let it eat now?

__________ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:38 am __________

Well, last time I checked Victorial is *still* in the nestbox. I pulled out Icon, my Dwarf doe (she only has one kit to nurse, so I figured she was a better option than my Holland who has 3) and let the little one nurse. It seemed to do ok and his tummy looked fairly full. Not terribly plump but not sunk in either. I rubbed his belly with a cotton ball. I don't think he went. Do I have to keep rubbing til he goes?

__________ Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:38 am __________

 

[OneAcreFarm]

If you can get Victoria to nurse the kit, that would be best, but if not...just keep doing what you are doing. Is it possible that Victoria has a stuck kit now? Can you check her and see? Also, you can palpate to see if she has anymore kits in there....

 

[Miss M]

I'm glad they both made it through the night! And that you were able to get some milk into his little tummy. Like OAF said, Victoria nursing him would be best, but she may not be able to at the moment. She could very well have a stuck kit.

I rubbed his belly with a cotton ball. I don't think he went. Do I have to keep rubbing til he goes?

It isn't his belly, but his privates you need to rub. You should rub gently until he goes, but if you're rubbing and rubbing for several minutes and he doesn't go, maybe try again later.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I sure hope everything turns out alright for Victoria and the Kit.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Poor you and poor Victoria! How sad to lose all of those little kits.

I hope they both come through. :clover:

Victoria might like a Sports drink right about now.

 

[MamaMandy]

Thank you all! I went out and checked just a few minutes ago and Victoria is finally out of the nest box. No more kits either. I palpated and I can't tell if there is one more or if it's just her distended uterus. She still hasn't cleaned herself up...she's pretty much a mess. I heard her gritting her teeth again too. I was thinking it would definitely be best for Victoria to be the one to nurse it but I didn't want to disturb her if she was trying to deliver, and I didn't know how much longer the little one should go without eating. I'll have to put a towel on my lap if I'm going to hold Victoria or I'll be a mess too. I'll definitely try rubbing the little guy again too. The cotton ball was a little bit yellow looking so maybe he did go. Maybe if there is a stuck kit the nursing will stimulate labor. I wish I had some sports drink to give her! I've heard of giving them milk to drink during labor too. I do have that on hand. Maybe I'll try it.

__________ Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:39 pm __________

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I went out and checked just a few minutes ago and Victoria is finally out of the nest box. No more kits either. I palpated and I can't tell if there is one more or if it's just her distended uterus. She still hasn't cleaned herself up...she's pretty much a mess. I heard her gritting her teeth again too.

A rabbit's uterus is two long tubes...so if you feel something semi firm, it is likely another kit. Grinding the teeth means she is in pain....there is something going on with her for sure.

 

[skysthelimit]

nursing will help with contractions and expel the contents of the uterus.

 

[MamaMandy]

I just let the little kit try to nurse on Victoria, it didn't seem to be able get any milk, but hopefully it helped Victoria out. It sure feels like there is one more kit in there. Nine is an awfully large litter for a Holland, isn't it? We gave her a dish of milk, not sure if she's touched it yet though. I think she knows she's not done...that's why she's not cleaning herself and why she keeps sitting in the nest box. I hate that she's in pain...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I wish I had some sports drink to give her!

You can easily make your own solution. I would use molasses and add banana as mentioned in #2.
Instructions

1. Mix 8 tsp. of sugar and 1/2 tsp. of salt in 1 liter of water. Store in the refrigerator for 24 hours. Mix fresh after 24 hours. The National Institute of Health recommends adding only a very small amount of orange or apple juice to improve the palatability of a homemade electrolyte solution.

2. Consider using molasses or raw sugar instead of white sugar. Molasses and raw sugar contain more potassium than white sugar, and potassium is an important component of electrolyte solutions. For the added potassium, puree (or mash) a banana and stir in some sugar and very little salt to taste, perhaps 1/4 tsp. Add some water to thin it out if you have to.

3. Make a solution containing starch. Starches are an important component of recovering nutrients lost due to diarrhea. Mix 1/2 to 1 cup of precooked baby rice cereal or 1 1/2 tbsp. of sugar with 2 cups of water and 1/2 tsp. of salt. Mix well.


Read more: How to Make an Electrolytic Solution | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5875270_make-el ... z28RrIOv8L

__________ Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:02 am __________

When my goats kid, I always give them molasses in warm water. They love it! They probably wonder why I am so stingy with it and they only get it then! :lol:<br /><br />__________ Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:09 am __________<br /><br />Herbs that cause uterine contractions include Parsley, Ginger, Yarrow, Feverfew, Rosemary and Sage. Funny that I give my rabbits Parsley as a post-partum treat! :hmm: I don't recall knowing it was an Emmenagogue. The subconcious at work!

For more ideas visit this link:

http://www.sisterzeus.com/Emmeno.htm

 

[Miss M]

9 is a lot for a Holland, if I remember right! I think they usually do 1 - 4?

It really concerns me that she's in pain and has lost more blood than normal. You can give her weeping willow twigs, or a piece of a baby aspirin if you feel she needs it. If she is still bleeding, though, you really need to be careful with it, since it inhibits clotting.

They often don't get their milk in for a day or two, so it's not unusual for the kit not to get anything from her yet.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Maybe a Tums to help her calcium levels instead of the milk?

 

[skysthelimit]

The most I've ever had is six.

 

[MaggieJ]

If you can get hold of some lavender buds, they will help expel the contents of the uterus. Fresh or dried both work. Sage also, as has been mentioned. I'd also give her a TUMS... sometimes a calcium boost helps. Willow twigs (any type of willow) will help with the pain. I know some of these things have already been mentioned by other members, but wanted to endorse the remedies I am familiar with.

 

[Miss M]

Any news?

 

[MamaMandy]

Sorry, I haven't had internet access for part of the weekend. Overall news is good! Victoria never had anymore kits (so a total of 8 ). I really think the mass I was feeling (it's smaller now) is her uterus. I did get her some Tums and was able to get some down her. She's perking up some and is no longer grinding her teeth or bleeding at all. She definitely needs to put on some weight before I'd even consider rebreeding her. I'm wondering with her turning 4 this month though, if this should be her last litter anyway. The one surviving kit is still alive and kicking! I'm keeping it inside in a little dish (with rags and cottonballs) on top of a heating pad that's on low. I've been bringing Victoria in twice a day to feed it.It eats well and always has a nice round tummy. It's so cute and sweet. It's a broken black that has a pattern that reminds me of an English Spot! We're calling it Dottie for now and hoping it will be a doe. Victoria is my only broken Holland, so I need this one to survive to carry on my brokens if I'm unable to breed Victoria anymore. Thank you all for your info, help and concern! I'll keep you posted!

 

[skysthelimit]

I hope everything goes well.