Decreasing litter sizes

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

How many of you cut down your litter sizes on your meat rabbits? My girls seem to be averaging around 8-10 kits a litter right now (don't know what their progeny will do) and they seem to do better around 8 kits. I'm just curious if anyone who does it has noticed a difference in the quality of the rabbits their raising since 'food' isn't spread so thin from mom when they're growing.

 

[Schipperkesue]

I would suggest culling newborn kits. Apparently this practice is done by commercial operations. I know that my smaller litters always grow faster and stronger by far!

 

[Zass]

I don't think it's wrong, but I still can't bring myself to do it. I've had too many of those runts reach 5 lbs along with the rest, and so long as they hit that weight before their allotted 12 weeks is up, who cares if they have 8 or 11?

 

[Dood]

I always foster out or cull the newborn litters to 8 or less.

The kits grow better and the does recover faster. I own several carnivores and snakes gotta eat too.

 

[Zass]

I always foster out or cull the newborn litters to 8 or less.

The kits grow better and the does recover faster. I own several carnivores and snakes gotta eat too.

I think if I had a snake or someone close by with one it would be lots easier for me to cull runts or surplus kits.

 

[akane]

We had some checkered giant x nzw does that were having 14-16 regularly. I was feeding extras to the cats. They benefit from a raw diet as much as the dogs. When we got rid of the cats I tried to find an outlet for my rodent and rabbit surplus but no luck. If I let them get a couple pounds I can butcher them for the dogs but that doesn't help the doe any. Just cuts the feed bill. Had to put down all my gerbils because there is only demand for them right around christmas (had 5 emails this year) and gerbils don't do well being separated and put back together for breeding. The dogs won't eat anything with the fur still on it so it has to be big enough I can skin it and make it worthwhile.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

Y tI just posted a similar line of thought on one of the fb meat rabbit groups. My big thing with it though is what is the best way to put out the kits? I have heard drowning and Co2 and in a bag smack against the corner of abuilding good n hard. None of them sound particularly pleasant. Even for me who is pretty much thee least squeamish person. I too wish i had a neighbor that i could just pop over with a "pinky" or few now and then. I would be fine feedin em to a snake or somethin, i just dont want to off the teeny guys and have to bury em without much purpose /:

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Personally, I'm opposed to drowning ANYTHING. I'm TERRIFIED of drowning, so I refuse to even use the mouse drowning traps. I'm not a very karma like person, but I try to keep everything in my favor...

Smack over the head is instant if you do it right. And you can usually find some snake owners who'd take them (if you sell them cheap, or even free). Just put them in baggies and freeze 'em

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

Ya i dont like the idea of drownin anything. I was almost drowned tryin to teach my sister to swim.. and she would always freak out and once in her freakout was stand/stomping me under the water /:
Dispatching is one thing but drowning seems very much not an insant death.

 

[Zass]

When I have to euthanize kits, I've always used the cervical dislocation via pencil method.
But I actually would prefer a co2 chamber. If it's done correctly it's supposed to be painless. just fall asleep and then die.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

When I have to euthanize kits, I've always used the cervical dislocation via pencil method.
But I actually would prefer a co2 chamber. If it's done correctly it's supposed to be painless. just fall asleep and then die.

How on earth do you manage to do it without.... well without things getting messy!
I can dispatch small young kits (such as coon attacked etc) about 3-6wk old just my hands but i have learned to feel/listen for the *pop* of the dislocation. But i cant imagine there would be much for a teeny pinky from "dont hold it like that" to , well to things getting messy...

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

I've heard you can use a good pair of shearers, place the head inbetween them, and *snip*. Messy, but affective. Instant, and hard to get it wrong.

 

[grumpy]

I always "try" to have several does kindle on the same day.

It's easier to equalize litters by fostering some kits to other does.
However, there are times that the young must be culled for the good of the litter.
A sharp rap to the back of their head, and a quick toss to the barn cats.
Sounds wretched, but it must be done at times. Nothing goes to waste.

grumpy.

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

When I have to euthanize kits, I've always used the cervical dislocation via pencil method.
But I actually would prefer a co2 chamber. If it's done correctly it's supposed to be painless. just fall asleep and then die.

GRAPHIC RESPONSE:


I made one when I was raising/breeding rats. I can honestly say that it's a horrible way to watch them go. It's not fast, and if your mix or your timing is off by even just a smidge you basically watch them suffocate. It's not pretty, and I will NEVER to it that way again. I think if you're masking the animal and have a proper regulator with the right drugs, it's one thing. I think a chamber would be fine if you had all the doodads to monitor things, though. I've had rats with an active eye response for up to 10 minutes inside the chamber, and when they begin to not get enough oxygen they begin gasping for air and I've even seen them hold their breath. The only smooth euth that I've had with that method was on a rescue rat that had a bad case of Myco and I think he was just so ready to be done that he... hrmmm... 'fell' into death. He was ready for it. The others, though, not so much the case.

 

[Dood]

Actually CO2 doesn't work well on neonatal mammals.

They need very little oxygen to live - one of the reasons cold kits can be brought back to life - blunt force trauma or cervical dislocation is recommended.

Some studies have shown that rats can detect CO2 and will panic trying to escape it, which defeats the purpose of trying to be humane in their euthanasia

I would assume rabbits - a burrowing animal - would have even better CO2 sensitivity since tunnel collapses are a part of their natural life and they'd need to know if they are running out of air underground.

 

[Schipperkesue]

Hmmm....this will be fairly graphic too.

I use the bonk method for every animal small enough to easily lift. I hold the animal facing me and with a swift, strong swing I bring the back of the head down on my sucker rod fence. Sucker rod is like a smooth rebar and runs horizontally. When your aim is perfect you dislocate their neck and crack the back of the skull at the same time. Instant death. This works for chicks and kits up to full sized large fowl chickens and meat rabbits. The last one I did in this way was a large Rex buck. It is amazingly fast and deadly if you do not hesitate.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I haven't purposefully culled kits from a litter, but when I have had to cull due to overcleaning by the doe or other reasons, I have used the bag method. Just make sure to swing very hard so death is instant.

One day there was a kit that was so badly mutilated I didn't want to prolong its suffering even long enough to go to the house to get a bag, so I flung it forcefully to the ground. Our soil is decomposed granite, and is as hard as concrete during dry weather, so it was very effective. I did feel bad though- it felt disrespectful to me to do it that way, but it was the better option for the kit. Now I keep a supply of bags in the feed shed.

Our barn cats go insane for the dead kits. I used to feed them to our dog Basil, but one day I was showing her kits from a nest, and she almost grabbed one because she had become so accustomed to viewing the nests as a source of snacks!

The other day I gave two dead kits to the cats. We feed them on top of the chicken coop, and Basil was there with me. She leapt into the air and nearly snatched a kit out of Popstar's mouth! :lol: Poor dog misses her little snacks, I guess. :roll:

Some studies have shown that rats can detect CO2 and will panic trying to escape it, which defeats the purpose of trying to be humane in their euthanasia

I would assume rabbits - a burrowing animal - would have even better CO2 sensitivity since tunnel collapses are a part of their natural life and they'd need to know if they are running out of air underground.

Whoa! Never thought of that- how awful for them! I don't think I would be comfortable "gassing" an animal anyway... I'd feel a bit too close to :hitler:

I wouldn't want to drown them or freeze them either.

I prefer that death comes so swiftly that they don't have time to realize anything is happening.

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't cull litter of 10-12 and eventually it evens out right about the time they are eating on their own. On the one time they had babies withing a few days of each other, all had the max amount of kits for their breed, so no evening out. By 4 weeks the first cut is culled anyway, and by 6-8 weeks I only have those I intend to grow out.

All buns here are bonked, on a post, and my aim is good. If it's not right between the head and shoulders, I get bleeding from the adults, but they are still out cold from being hit on the head. Culling little kits I have to watch my hand doesn't hit the post, but it's quick and bloodless.

 

[akane]

After research I determined co2 is not humane without the several $100 in regulators, tanks, and proper equipment. Laboratories have to follow very strict guidelines when putting down animals by co2 chamber. I used an electric rat trap for the gerbils. It claims death within 3 seconds. It didn't work on the hamsters though. They were too well insulated and would wake back up after a minute. If you're quick you can stun them that way and cut their heads off before they come back. I went to doing that even with the gerbils just in case. I did actually go to drowning guinea pigs. It's not ideal but it was the most humane method I could come up with. They didn't fit the rat trap, their neck was too short and thick to dislocate or cut through, shooting them went horribly wrong, and I am wildly inaccurate at bonking on something. I got a bowl the size of the bucket, drilled holes in the bottom, flipped it upsidedown and after I put a guinea pig in the bucket of water quickly shoved the bowl down over them so they were submerged. They usually passed out within 5seconds.

 

[Zass]

Eh, after reading all this I think I'll just stick with the cervical dislocation.
It's fast and accurate enough if you know what your doing, and it seems like neck breaking is the overall goal with most methods used on here.
As far as messy, well, yeah, it can get messy, but it's better than a slow death.

Thanks everyone!