Deciding who to breed to who for chocolate, lilacs- Mini rex

[LauraNJ]

Deciding who to breed to who for next breedings and want to make sure my plans make sense. I am going to lay out aragon's pedigree so it is easier to see then trying to write it all out together.


Bucks-

Argyle- Brkn Castor, has all blacks and castors behind him. He is mainly McCabe lines.

Next I have Aragon who has mainly Noble Fur lines, :
grgrand- brkn lilac
grandsire- lilac
grgranddam-lilac
sire- brkn choc
grgransire- chocolate
granddam- brkn choc
grgranddam- chocolate
Aragon

grgrandsire- brkn lynx
grandsire- lynx
grgranddam-lynx

dam- rew

grgrandsire- brkn black
granddam-rew
grgranddam- blue

So for does I have a choice of Sarah who is a REW (same sire as Aragon but the Dams side is all blacks, blues with some brkns but all black based colors).

THen I have Isabella who is an opal and has blacks, opals, brkn opals, otters behind her. If I bred Isabella to Aragon, I believe I would get all black based colors but they would carry the chocolate genes? She is from Altan, Neuse, cresthill lines. She currently has a litter, she produced a black otter, black, 2 brkn castors (she was bred to Argyle who is a castor)and a tort.

I would like to eventually get some of the chocolate colors like lilac, lynx. So, I was thinking if I bred Isabella to Aragon, then kept a couple does, bred them back to Aragon I should get the chocolates and dilutes of chocolate, is that correct? I could also get the blacks and the dilutes of black, is that correct? Then I could improve on those colors?

Or I could breed one of sarahs kits (Sarah x Argyle)who should carry chocolate from her sire and breed to an Isabella x Aragon doe.

Either way I am doing a very close breeding but that doesn't bother me, any opinions which way seems more likely to produce chcocolates and the dilutes? Or any other suggestions of who to breed to who? It seems like I am limited this next time but then next generation I can play more with who to who.

DOes all that make sense? I bred dogs for many years and put tons of time into figuring out pedigrees, colors, type, etc and I like to play around ahead of time so I have an idea of what I am doing not just this generation but a couple generations down the line. It can always change but I like to have clear goals with where I am headed. I am still figuring out rabbit genetics and learning all I can, it is slightly more complicated than dogs. If I need to clarify anything, just ask. So what do you think?

 

[jessie15273]

So for does I have a choice of Sarah who is a REW (same sire as Aragon but the Dams side is all blacks, blues with some brkns but all black based colors).

THen I have Isabella who is an opal and has blacks, opals, brkn opals, otters behind her. If I bred Isabella to Aragon, I believe I would get all black based colors but they would carry the chocolate genes? She is from Altan, Neuse, cresthill lines. She currently has a litter, she produced a black otter, black, 2 brkn castors (she was bred to Argyle who is a castor)and a tort.

I would like to eventually get some of the chocolate colors like lilac, lynx. So, I was thinking if I bred Isabella to Aragon, then kept a couple does, bred them back to Aragon I should get the chocolates and dilutes of chocolate, is that correct? I could also get the blacks and the dilutes of black, is that correct? Then I could improve on those colors?



This much should work, provided Aragon is a lilac, or a chocolate who carries dilute.



I am working towards breeding Lilac + Fawn Tricolors. I just had my first chocolate born a week ago, and Now I have just gotten a blue buck! Now im going to try to breed for the lilacs, then cross them into my tric colors. Its very nice to have someone dealing in similar colors not too far away!

 

[LauraNJ]

Jessie- that is fun. At some point we could always swap a kit or something.

Aragon is a rew, so I don't know his actual color, I am hoping he is chocolate based under the white. I think I am figuring it out correctly.

Congrats on your first chocolate kit! How exciting!

 

[Rexisbest]

We got our first chocolate in Feb...completely shocked, black to broken tort! We got a broken black, chocolate and REW. He is turning out REALLY nice and I have a new found love for chocolates!
Good luck with your pairings, I stick mainly to self so have no words of wisdom :lol:

 

[skysthelimit]

Still waiting for mine!!!!

This is such a closely bred line, and I know exactly who carries it, now why can't I get any!! I really want to work towards some Ambers and Lilacs, not necessarily chocolates themselves.

I'm drawing a web, and everyone will be bred to everyone at least once, no matter how closely related.

 

[LauraNJ]

It's very frustrating sometimes when working with mother nature and knowing you should get a certain color but then it doesn't happen. It has happened to me with dogs and colors. I knew what I should get and then don't get it. It always looks so simple when you figure out what percentage of this or that you should get, well, for dogs it is fairly simple.

Your web idea is intriguing. Are you actually laying it out in a web design and then crossing in from one rabbit to another? I can see how that would be a good visual to keep track.

I wouldn't worry about inbreeding or linebreeding in rabbits unless you get issues. 3 of our mini rexes are unrelated to each other. the 4th is half sister to the one. Linebreeding and inbreeding let you see what you actually have and tighten up the positives. Pretty much all beverans are related to each other, there is no getting around it and not enough stock really. I do notice a difference in the hardiness of the mini rexes (great)compared to the beverans (ok), although I do really like the beverans.

Rexisbest- That is great! I think if I go with my plan, I would have a nice variety of colors like you did. Rabbits with all the variations, and colors are very interesting and it makes it fun. At least I think so.

 

[skysthelimit]

This whole line has been a closed herd for four years. Rex are not that common here. I do not fear in breeding at all, but I do have a number of brother and sisters from different litters, same parents. I do intend to breed those as well. That may be the only way to get what I want. Only the Chins and Seals will be kept separate. This summer I will cull so I don't have so many brothers and sisters.

 

[Rexisbest]

I agree LauraNJ! Unfortunately, we have limited cage space...20 holes....so we can't get too crazy with colors. Sticking with self and otters for now, would love the challenge of chin but nowhere near read for that!! Sky, I love your web idea....you will have to keep us updated.

 

[LauraNJ]

You have more holes than me. Yes it is a shame we can't just keep them all.

I just bought more wire to make cages and last night saw an ad on Craigslist for 2 cages. Emailed the lady and I am going tonight to buy them.

I will now be ahead of the upcoming keeper rabbits vs cages for them, so excited!

 

[Rexisbest]

I told my husband there will never be more than 10........whoops! He took care of the rabbits that did not go to KY Cup and made a list.......he did the math rather quickly and said "so much for 10!" He sees how happy they make my daughter so he is pretty understanding. You will hit 20 before you know it!!!

 

[skysthelimit]

I had maybe 5 last year this time, now I have 60.<br /><br />__________ Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:49 pm __________<br /><br />I did a written web, gave every doe a compatible set of bucks (chins, sable and cals only with their respective color counterparts). then wrote out all of the genotypes I've mapped so far. I wrote a chart of all the Rex colors and the names I know that carry those genes. Underneath each breeding, I'm going to write what color combinations I can expect, and fill in the missing variables as I go along. I also calculated the inbreeding coefficient for each breeding. My highest is 32%, and that is not from a sibling mating. I am very curious if the harlie gene is still hanging out somewhere, with enough inbreeding, I hope to find out.

 

[LauraNJ]

Sky- Thanks for the explanation of how you are doing it. It sounds very organized and makes sense. I am doing something a little similiar as far as genotypes but I need to figure out the possibilities with the bucks. Alot of it is just in my head.

So, now I have the opportunity to buy, well, send dh in NC to buy, a blue otter buck and the breeder also has chocolate kits just born. I forgot to send a cage with dh so he'd have to buy something, he doesn't come back home for another 10 days or so.

I know I am keeping the tort in Isabellas litter. I don't even care if it is a buck or doe, I just love how he is already very typy and round. I also like the 2 brokens, the otter, the solid black.

Sarahs litter is disappointing at this point as far as color goes. It looks like 2 castors, a broken and a solid but I don't care for their castor color. It isn't nice like Isabellas litter but my goal with them is to eventually breed to Aragon who also carries choc. like Sarah so that I get chocolates.

I did buy the 2 cages and made the third last week so I actually have empty cages just sitting and waiting.

Rabbits are so addicting with all the colors!

 

[skysthelimit]

Sarahs litter is disappointing at this point as far as color goes. It looks like 2 castors, a broken and a solid but I don't care for their castor color.
Rabbits are so addicting with all the colors!

For the first time I will have plenty of Castors to chose from, and plenty of kits for Convention. I just have to go now.

But that dilute and chocolate keeps eluding me, this whole herd carries dilute, where are my chocolates, blue otters, ambers and lilacs? Gonna flush those genes out too.