d'argent genetics

[akane]

I'm trying to sort out d'argent color genetics and I bred out because I was having bad luck with does taking. So I crossed my creme and champagne doe with my chocolate mini rex buck. I got 9 black based kits out of the creme and 4 blacks and 1 chocolate out of the champagne. That makes both colors self. I'm not sure what makes a creme red though. I'm keeping a few from each litter to cross with each other or back to their parents to see what I get. We'll also see if the first generation silvers.

Champagne offspring

Creme offspring

 

[PulpFaction]

Nice! I think the Creme's are essentially a fawn with the silvering?

I should really try to get Creme d'Argent for my Red Fox project...

 

[Pickles]

Adorable kits!

 

[DevonW]

Cremes are a fawn ( Non extension agouti ), and shouldn't be mixed with any other Argente Colour because they're not selfs and you'll really mess up your genetics.


Argentes are basically a base colour like black with an si gene. (aaB-C-D-E-si)

Si= normal color
si= silvered (Silvers, D‘Argents)

Champagnes are known to carry recessive colours like chocolate and blue and you occasionally get litters with chocolates and blues in it.

 

[akane]

If cremes are not self then why did I get all blacks in a large litter? If you combine chocolate EE with fawn ee shouldn't you get chestnut all carrying Ee?

What is an Argente Noir if a champagne is black based?

 

[PulpFaction]

If cremes are not self then why did I get all blacks in a large litter? If you combine chocolate EE with fawn ee shouldn't you get chestnut all carrying Ee?

What is an Argente Noir if a champagne is black based?

Could they be steels? I don't know, never had a steel, I guess they still have visible light bellies as babes, huh?

 

[akane]

:shrug:<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:52 am __________<br /><br />I couldn't resist digging the nestbox out of the 2x3' straw pile the creme doe buried it in when our temps hit negatives and first OMG those things are huge! They are around a week old and about the size of a 3-4week old mini rex. The other crosses are bigger than the rex kits but nowhere near that big. Yes there are some fawns. The pink markings on the kits just wasn't as obvious as it is on the mini rex. However there are also some blacks so a creme d'argent is fawn. As to the rest I think my doe has some new zealand in her since cremes are so hard to get around here.

 

[DevonW]

A non-extension that carries self will produce blacks when bred with a self colour, and a lot of Cremes due to a lack of availability in the breed have been out crossed to other breeds which introduces a wide assortment of genetic variations.

I have a litter of Argente Bruns and Mini Rex right now, the Brun kits are 2 weeks younger then the Mini Rex and are are easily twice the size. and They've been consistently making 5lbs right at 8 weeks.

 

[akane]

Too bad shipping rabbits is so expensive or I'd take some bruns from you. I like the bruns and bleus but can't find them here.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Wow your Champagne doe carries chocolate! A brun in disguise lol!!

 

[akane]

The problem is how to find another brun in disguise..... Especially since some champagne breeders seem to think it's horrible to have their rabbits produce a brun. I've gotten snapped at for asking if they ever see any.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

The problem is how to find another brun in disguise..... Especially since some champagne breeders seem to think it's horrible to have their rabbits produce a brun. I've gotten snapped at for asking if they ever see any.

I like the Champagnes-- that way, the whole name is "french" And, from a distance, at a point, it is hard for the unkowing totell them apart from AmChins- especially the darker ones

 

[akane]

What? I'm not sure any of that sentence made sense to me. Brun is french.. bleu is french... and why would you want your argentes to look like chinchillas?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I picked up a couple of champagnes, and it was quite a while before He Who Shall Not Be Called By Name figured out I had another breed under the shelter. Problem was, they got to be a lot lighter in color than my AmChins-- he thought the rabbits were getting old and 'grey' real fast!!!! As it was, the rabbits were a lot older than the paperwork suggested they were. I did find them to be quite nice after I got them used to me.
Champagne would indicate region , while 'D'Argent' translates figuratively as "of Silver" The proper translation is "Silver of Champagne" The syntax differnces are an issue, somtimes. Madame S would crucify me most days, as I just can't get the syntax reversals between English and French when I am not feeling quite right!!! I did one of my French class 'reports' on French agricultural practices--France historically has been a very important area of livestock development
And since when has anything I said made sense?

 

[akane]

I think the brun and bleu are often said Argente brun instead of d'argent. My french 1 class is not enough for me to know why.

How do you know the age was incorrect? Different lines of champagnes will silver to different amounts so that isn't helpful. Some countries the really white ones were popular and some countries the nearly black ones were. Depending where your line came from originally and whether the person has been breeding for amount of silvering 2 rabbits of the same age can be vastly different in shade. This site explains some of the differences in various countries and has a good comparison pic of 2 bruns http://www.raising-rabbits.com/champagne-dargent.html

 

[DevonW]

It all has to do with French Grammar. The Champagne D' Argent is a silver of Champagne (a place). Where as the Bruns and bleus etc, are not from a place rather they're using a colour to describe the silver, thus taking on an adjective form and most French adjectives come after the noun they modify unless the adjective has to do with beauty, age, or goodness. In this case they're not. So they become Argente Brun and Argente Bleu instead of Brun Argent (you wouldn't have the De as they're not from silver).

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

How do you know the age was incorrect? http://www.raising-rabbits.com/champagne-dargent.html

I had them to the vet specialist, as everything I bought from the kid was falling over- the vet tld me they were alot older than what I had on their record cards.The kid had bought them from somebody else, and they would not 'take'-though the original seller told him they were
good producers; The kid gave me the correspondence he had from the first seller, and it seems that yes, the kid was sold old rabbits and given the papers of younger rabbits. Anyone can duplicate an ear tat..<br /><br />__________ Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:15 am __________<br /><br />Something else about the French langiage- if an accent is not properly placed,or a letter forgotten, the restaraunt critic writes: "I was served a delectable plate of baked poison.." This from one of my college profs who spent a year in France as part of his education.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Po ah- san for "poisson" lol Did they actually give him POISON and not fish?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Po ah- san for "poisson" lol Did they actually give him POISON and not fish?

There was a 'typo' in the published critique- he really got fish, but 'poison' was the pubished word... I wonder who was more embarrassed, the restaurant, or the newspaper folks. That was over 30 years ago--now, I doubt it matters much- I haven't come across a newspaper in years that wasn't riddled with poor grammar, spelling errors, and just plain stupidity. In my lasr Frenchclass, My academic advisor offered to help us practice in his "poor, Canadian French" Madame kindly thanked him and said= "No, they need tolearn the REAL language" Hey, we don't speak the Queen's English here, so she may have had a point!

 

[akane]

4 blacks and 2 agouti this litter. One of the agoutis came out very red. Is my chocolate mini rex carrying e or is it rufus modifiers?