Curious about some Dutch crosses...

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Just picked up some Dutch crossbreds for a friend, as well as one for me...and I have no idea what color they are. Agouti of some flavor I assume. Especially curious about the doe I'm keeping...

These are the ones going to the friend...they're all pretty uniformly the same:

The only one who is different is my little hold-back doe...she's more "gray" than the orangey ones.

What color is she? What genetics cause Dutch to have those Vienna-like markings? Could this grayish doe pass that on to her kits???

What would I get if I bred her to a self black?

And yes, I'm breeding this crossbred doe for a purpose, not just for kicks. Breeding for very small meat rabbits to supply a raw-feed customer...but I'd still like to know what all she is and could make.

 

[Dood]

All are chestnut (black agouti) but your darker doe is lacking Rufus factors (that brighten/redden the fur) that your friends buns got.

Dutch is recessive so you need two to get proper dutch markings (dudu) - most of the time To make things more confusing there seems to be two versions of the recessive form and your doe with the white likely got the high white version (duw) of the dutch gene while her non white littermates got the darker version (dud)

If you bred this chestnut to a black you will likely just get chestnuts, but if she carries self you could get some blacks, also some of them may get the white feet like the mum.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

All are chestnut (black agouti) but your darker doe is lacking Rufus factors (that brighten/redden the fur) that your friends buns got.

Dutch is recessive so you need two to get proper dutch markings (dudu) - most of the time To make things more confusing there seems to be two versions of the recessive form and your doe with the white likely got the high white version (duw) of the dutch gene while her non white littermates got the darker version (dud)

If you bred this chestnut to a black you will likely just get chestnuts, but if she carries self you could get some blacks, also some of them may get the white feet like the mum.

Very cool!

Okay...more hypotheticals. For her first litter I'm gonna breed her to a small buck, but I'm tempted to put her to my Champagne buck later on...if one of her kits had white markings, and I held back that kit, and (provided it's a buck) bred it back to her, might I get Dutch-like patterns? Or at least cute white noses like some of her brothers?

Wait...so wait a minute...my Champagne is a self-black with two copies of the silver gene...OH MAH GAWD, if I bred a white-marked half-silver kit of hers to a sibling...I could theoretically get my "broken silver" project back underway...except instead of actual broken-patterning, it'd be Dutch-like, right?

Please tell me I'm right because now I'm all excited.

 

[2 bun-owner]

All are chestnut (black agouti) but your darker doe is lacking Rufus factors (that brighten/redden the fur) that your friends buns got.

Dutch is recessive so you need two to get proper dutch markings (dudu) - most of the time To make things more confusing there seems to be two versions of the recessive form and your doe with the white likely got the high white version (duw) of the dutch gene while her non white littermates got the darker version (dud)

If you bred this chestnut to a black you will likely just get chestnuts, but if she carries self you could get some blacks, also some of them may get the white feet like the mum.

Very cool!

Okay...more hypotheticals. For her first litter I'm gonna breed her to a small buck, but I'm tempted to put her to my Champagne buck later on...if one of her kits had white markings, and I held back that kit, and (provided it's a buck) bred it back to her, might I get Dutch-like patterns? Or at least cute white noses like some of her brothers?

Wait...so wait a minute...my Champagne is a self-black with two copies of the silver gene...OH MAH GAWD, if I bred a white-marked half-silver kit of hers to a sibling...I could theoretically get my "broken silver" project back underway...except instead of actual broken-patterning, it'd be Dutch-like, right?

Please tell me I'm right because now I'm all excited. [/quot

Would that be considered in breeding though??
Just am curious.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Yup...though sibling-to-sibling isn't ideal, inbreeding or linebreeding is commonly used to produce consistent quality. Usually from son-to-mother or daughter-to-father crossings though.

 

[2 bun-owner]

Yup...though sibling-to-sibling isn't ideal, inbreeding or linebreeding is commonly used to produce consistent quality. Usually from son-to-mother or daughter-to-father crossings though.

Interesting. Thank you!
When it comes to breeding colors
And genetics I'm lost.

 

[Dood]

If she carries the high white and passes this off to a son then 50% of their kits will be "du du" and look dutch-ish. Because I think it is the high white dutch gene they will probably have quite a bit more white than just the neck and face and actually look more like a blotchy broken and be 'due duw duw' (duw=dutch white vs dud=dutch dark)

And you are correct that breeding two siblings that carry silver and self from a champagne parent and that have some white (so likely got the dutch gene) will give you black, silver and white marked kits.

__________ Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:30 am __________

Also, because you are breeding in a completely different, and distantly related, breed to the champagnes I would t worry about inbreeding issues for many many many many generations.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

If she carries the high white and passes this off to a son then 50% of their kits will be "du du" and look dutch-ish. Because I think it is the high white dutch gene they will probably have quite a bit more white than just the neck and face and actually look more like a blotchy broken and be 'due duw'

I don't know what due and duw mean...I assume they are variation of du which is genetic lingo for Dutch pattern?

I'm cool with blotchy "broken" kits!!! That would be ideal.

And you are correct that breeding two siblings that carry silver and self from a champagne parent and that have some white (so likely got the dutch gene) will give you black, silver and white marked kits.

WOOT!!! Awesome, thanks!!!

Also, because you are breeding in a completely different, and distantly related, breed to the champagnes I would t worry about inbreeding issues for many many many many generations.

That's kinda what I figured.

 

[paintrider89]

I had some buns I thought were Vienna, and ended up being dutch withvery llittle white. When I did daughter/fauther crossings o got kits with big blazes, white shilders, white feet, snips. All kinds of neat white marks. I now have one of those does, and a purebred dutch buck, can't wait to see the kits.