Culling for nest box eye - ouch

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Zinnia

Zinnia

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Two of my five litters were sired by my favorite buck. Those two litters are having trouble with nest box eye. The worst litter is with my absolute favorite doe and favorite buck. I have been reading about the likelihood of nest box eye being hereditary. The nicest colored kits are suffering the worst (Oh, WHY??) :x . If I kept back the ones that have never suffered in those litters, will I be breeding this out? There are clearly kits in each litter that have great eyes right alongside some of the nastiest eyes I've dealt with. That's got to mean something, right?
 
I really think, at least for me, the up and down weather has a hand in it. I have two kits with my first ever cases of it. One eye of each kit. Same does and bucks I have bred many times before and never had a problem. I bred them last winter- all was fine, BUT the weather was uniformly cold. This winter, it's 60 degrees one day and 30 the next.

*fingers crossed we both get it straightened out soon*
 
I had one kit in a litter of six that had a bad eye..we did a ten day treatment with Terramycin...cleared up the infection and it turned out to be a birth defect where the eyelashes grow under the lid.. :shock: but he is 9weeks old and destined for freezer camp...I don't get the cold weather so I can't comment on that. But if you want to treat them the antibiotics do work...but I wouldn't use them for breeding stock....
 
That's interesting. A while back I had a litter where a couple appeared to have their lashing growing wrong... caused something like nest box eye.

I was thinking that, too. I wouldn't want to use them or sell them for breeding stock. Must be some reason the rest in the litter are just fine. This is the same litter that had two Spinabifida kits in it. Wondering if I should cull hard from this doe. I want to keep the doe because she's got the best build, wool and color of all my stock.
 
Are these the first litters by your buck and does or have they had litters before?

In my experience all the does we're proven and had several litters in the past with no cases of nest box eye except when bred to a new Californian buck - BAM - a bunch of kits with it.

It was a horrible winter in 2013/14 and I thought it might have something to do with it so I gave the guy a chance in the spring - POW- more kits with eyes glued shut and the purebred AmChin litters were all fine so it was game over for the Cali buck and no cases in any other litters since May 2014
 
First litter for the two does (one had a very mild problem in one kit). Same buck, but he sired a previous litter with another doe - no nest box eye there.

(Cool sound effects!)

I don't have enough litters out of this buck to tell, but it would seem more likely the does (at least the one doe).
 
Some does can carry bacteria in their nail beds, and it contaminates the nest bedding. I read something where they gave the doe a round of PenG before rebreed in and it eliminated the chronic NBE issues. For me, I will treat the kits, if it doesn't resolve or comes back then I cull them. I haven't had this issue, but if the doe had this issue in every litter, I would try the ABX regimen before culling.
 
Well, it might be the weather, a hygene issue or a fluke :shrug:

If it's the does first litter, and during winter, I would likely give them another chance but not a third.
 
Dood":ww2v3xt3 said:
Well, it might be the weather, a hygene issue or a fluke :shrug:

If it's the does first litter, and during winter, I would likely give them another chance but not a third.
Click to expand...

For sure, especially in winter when they stay longer in the box.
 
I will surely be giving her more chances. Since I intend to keep this doe, and offspring in the future.... and I plan on harvesting the offspring that I cull, I'm thinking I will hold off keeping any kits that were badly affected. The two kits that had it were very affected! So, I probably won't keep them. We'll see about their progress through treating it. I don't think it's a weather issue so much. There are other litters out there now with no problems whatsoever.
 
First time moms are not always they best - they are more likely have kits on the wire or not build fur nests or disturb the kits more often so they may not be as dutiful in cleaning their brood either which might be a factor :shrug:

I certainly wouldn't keep any of these kits, just in case the second batch have issues and its a genetics problem.
 
Good points, Dood.

OK, I have a lot to learn about culling and I just want to be sure I'm not being too picky about this eye thing.

By the time they grow out for eating, there will be another litter from these parents for me to observe.
 
There surely have been ups and downs with the weather here. My observation is that, in all the litters here now, just this one litter seems to have health problems.

But, I'm thinking that just in case this is a fluke, I will still have these kits when the next litter from the same parents comes. That'll give me more to go on... and it wouldn't be too late to keep one of this litter if I felt it was a good idea.
 
Knock on wood but so far this year I have seen alot less NBE, then last year. Only time I really get it is winter. I won't keep any that had it. Sometimes only a few in a litter will get it, and I will save one that didn't. I figured they were resistant and moved on. I believe that would be moving towards breeding it out.
But then again some breeders would cull a doe that had any kits like that. Everyone has their own guidelines.
 
Well, I just dispatched (OK, I had my husband do it...) the one with the worst eyes. He kept scratching at them with his little claws and I think that's why his stayed so bad. Since I knew I wasn't going to use him to breed, only to raise for meat when he recovered, I decided he should not suffer any more. :cry:

The little doe's eye may be fine... still, she will just be a wooler (if not dinner).

I do feel that since I have a dual purpose breed (they are French Angora), it makes sense to cull hard. They will not be wasted. I don't want to promote any substandard breeding stock.

I hope that doesn't sound harsh. But, I think it saves heartache for the future.
 
It is harsh Zinnia, but it's what I would have done. No sense letting a baby suffer just to eat it later.

I dispatch too many healthy fryers to mess around trying to cure ones with weak immune systems.
 
What seems to help me with nest box eye is to change out the bedding in my nest boxes on the 8th day before there eyes open. I live in south Louisiana and if it is cold the does usually pull more fur to cover the kits. Since I started doing that I don't have much trouble with nest box eye.
 
Changing out bedding is a part of the routine for prevention here, too. But, I guess my point is the clear difference in resistance in kits, even of the same litter. My goal is to breed for resistance so I don't have fragile or weak lines. You are right about the timing. My lines eye's start to open on day 9, so I need to be watching closely from one week on....
 

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