Creme d birthing problems

[Dragongreg]

Hello all, I have three 10 month old creme's and each one of them has not done well with there first litters. Two failed to actually use the provide box that had a bed of cedar chips plus a generous amount of hay. I placed the boxes in at 28 days and they both gave birth on day 30. I found in each case 6 dead kits in the more on the bottom of the cage. The third used the box but didn't really make a nest and we lost 3 of the 6 kits. In each case this was there first pregnancy and perhaps it was just inexperience or is it something that I'm doing wrong???

My cali's and NZ have all done well with the same set up. Ive given the gals two month to rest up and should give birth in the next 5-7 days. Any suggestions would be most appreciated!!

Thanks!!

 

[JessicaR]

Lose the cedar! it is not good for rabbits.

 

[3mina]

Seconded!

 

[Piper]

:yeahthat:

cedar can cause respiratory problems

 

[MamaSheepdog]

:welcomewagon:

Hi Dragongreg, and welcome to RabbitTalk!

Cedar used to be commonly used for small animals, but is now considered to be somewhat unsafe due to its pungent oils, especially in an enclosed environment. Since your other does had no problems with it, I doubt that it was the problem with your Cremes. I would use pine bedding in the nests in the future though just to be safe.

Many first time does are a bit confused by the birthing process and will make mistakes. Most people here give a doe 3 chances to do it right before giving up on her.

I would be sure to breed two or more of your does at the same time so you can foster kits to another doe if one doesn't quite "get it" next time, preferably having at least one experienced doe bred at the same time as the newbies . Lining the entire cage with a towel, cardboard, or bedding when they are expecting may save the kits from dying from being too chilled if they are born outside of the box. You may want to start saving fur now so you have it to add to the nests if they don't pull any fur. Feathers, dryer lint, or teased cotton balls or batting can also be used in place of fur.

You are off to a bit of a rough start, but both you and the does will gain experience and do better in the future, I'm sure. With a little luck you will soon have lots of healthy kits filling your nestboxes!

 

[Dragongreg]

Thanks so much for the advise! Will swap out the cedar chips for some pine and feathers and such. Also, with the Michigan winter upon us, what are your thoughts on heat lamps for the does and new Norns?

Thanks again!

 

[Cowboy1]

Why pine? Go to hay!

 

[akane]

Hay is not absorbent and can actually insullate moisture. A layer of pine shavings or pellets on the bottom can really help. I don't have to change out my boxes while the kits grow because I layer mine with pine pellets, pine shavings, and then straw or hay. It's extremely absorbent and keeps them clean until 2 weeks old with no changes needed except to add more hay because they eat it even before their eyes open.

Cedar not only causes respiratory problems but has been found to cause liver failure and organ stress. On a kit that would likely be deadly.

 

[skysthelimit]

Thanks so much for the advise! Will swap out the cedar chips for some pine and feathers and such. Also, with the Michigan winter upon us, what are your thoughts on heat lamps for the does and new No
Thanks again!

I just bring the boxes in. The thought of having a heat lamp unattended in the barn is frightening. I've heard plenty of stories where the heat lamp exploded and set the barn on fire.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Thanks so much for the advise! Will swap out the cedar chips for some pine and feathers and such. Also, with the Michigan winter upon us, what are your thoughts on heat lamps for the does and new Norns?

Thanks again!

Heat lamps could quickly over heat your litter and kill them, as they cannot get away from the lamp if it is directed onto the nest. Even in below freezing temps, a well made nest can be 105f or more in temperature. I use pine bedding, and then a soft grass hay in my nest boxes.

 

[3mina]

I use straw instead of hay because I find it blends really well the does fur

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

straw is a better insulator over hay.. And it doent start to decay as fast as hay. Amy shavings will do as long it isnt cedar.

 

[Dragongreg]

Thanks for all of the advise! Just finished changing out to pine shavings on the boxes that I have prepped. Should have Cali giving birth tonight or tomorrow with the new box set up. Also, what are the general thoughts on metal vs wood boxes? Ive used both and really haven't or am not experienced enough to see a difference. The metal with wood bottoms are certainly easier to clean up and such. Seems like the wood may stay a bit warmer though. Temp is dropping in Michigan and this is our first winter with the rabbits. Just trying to gain some knowledge and thanks again gang.

 

[3mina]

Thanks for all of the advise! Just finished changing out to pine shavings on the boxes that I have prepped. Should have Cali giving birth tonight or tomorrow with the new box set up. Also, what are the general thoughts on metal vs wood boxes? Ive used both and really haven't or am not experienced enough to see a difference. The metal with wood bottoms are certainly easier to clean up and such. Seems like the wood may stay a bit warmer though. Temp is dropping in Michigan and this is our first winter with the rabbits. Just trying to gain some knowledge and thanks again gang.

I have wood boxes and they're ok but they're a bit of a pain to keep clean. Since I live BFN as far as easily getting rabbit supplies I switched to plastic totes for nestboxes. I use the 3 gallon size for my standard Rex. I use the tops from the totes as resting pads in my cages. I just cut a hole in the side so the doe can get in without kicking it over but I've never had a doe tip one over yet.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I put care fresh, pine shavings and soft grass hay in my nest boxes. I have some wood boxes and some plastic totes. I used a soldering iron to burn holes in the bottoms of the plastic totes just in case of urine as well. I have not had any luck with first time moms outside this fall. But the indoors bunnies are doing great. Three litters and four to go. Then I am done till spring.

 

[Dragongreg]

I actually have all of them in a 24' long x 12' wide x 9' tall shelter logic enclosure. It has zip up / down doors at each end and while it's not heated there is no wind, rain or snow to deal with. I've got two cali's due this weekend, and a couple of NZ the following along with my two creme's. I was really hoping to get some of the creme's kitts before full blow winter set in. They are really easy to handle and beautifully colored.

Where about in Michigan are you?

Thanks for the advice!

 

[DevonW]

Not all rabbits understand what the nest box is for and combined with inexperience can cause for a failed first litter. It's why most use the three strike system before deciding the doe is a dud. Some people are lucky and their rabbits make great first time mothers my Champagnes and Bruns never had issues with losing their first litter. Some people not so much. It's not our fault because we can't always be watching first time does like a hawk and you can't always control the environment when a doe is due (mine like to have babies when there are terrible storms or extreme cold weather).

 

[skysthelimit]

I like the plastic totes too, very easy to put the lid on and carry back and forth from barn to house. i've only had one doe tip it over, so i put a rock in it and that stopped. I made some wood mock up ones this summer, and I wasn't too fond of them, though they were much heavier than the totes.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

Sky, do you have a picture of these plastic totes. I hate my nest boxes .. I was looking for a different ideas. what size are they

 

[Dragongreg]

I'd like to get more info on the totes as well. Seems like a great idea and should be easy to clean and such. Today I ordered a few of the heat mats to try out during winter. Any thoughts on using them?