Creating your own pedigree and/or obtaining one...

[Wolfeh]

I'm trying to buy some silver fox rabbits. The owner has the parents registered, says the kits are "registrable" yet doesn't have a 3 generation pedigree on them and is trying to get in contact with the guy he got them from to get the lineage I guess, but so far he has not gotten a response and I'm getting a bit concerned.

From what I have read I could get them without a pedigree, breed for 3 generations, record them in a pedigree, and register the offspring. Is this correct? If you can register a rabbit with just the parents in the pedigree (as said here) I'm sure there are cons to this such as they can't be shown right?

I just want to make sure so I'm not stuck with 3 meat rabbits who can only be used for meat and not show...

 

[luvabunny]

Unlike dogs, there is a difference in having a pedigreed rabbit, &/or a registered rabbit.
Pedigrees are just a 3 generation listing of parents and grandparents.
Registered rabbits must have a complete 3 generation pedigree, must be done by a show registrar, and are kept by the American Rabbit Breeders Assoc. You must belong to the ARBA in order to register your rabbit.

Rabbits do not have to have either a pedigree or be registered to show.

I would not hold my breath about getting a pedigree. If the owner currently doesn't have it, it probably won't be forthcoming. However, you are correct, even without pedigrees, you can create your own within 3 generations.

 

[akane]

You can show anything that looks like that breed. It doesn't even have to have a pedigree. Just the correct ear tattoo.

You can breed to create your own pedigreed, registerable animals but quite frequently you want to breed back to an earlier generation to bring up a good trait and as soon as you do that you are back to square one. When you are establishing a line you have to get rid of the parents and bring in new blood to keep going or you'll always be going back to not having a full pedigree. So in the end you buy some pedigreed rabbits anyway. I'd just wait to see if the guy can get the pedigrees. If the rabbits are registered I believe you can also get the pedigrees from arba. This is only true for registered rabbits.

 

[starshotbandit]

sounds like the breeder is pulling your chain. if the parents r redistered then he has 3 gen pedigree, unless he doesent have the reg. pappers, and that to me means no reg.
what I got from all the reading that i have done is you can own a reg.rabbit, but in order to get your kits reg. you have to be a member of the ARBA. Thats juts me reading, I'm new to the whole pedigreed/registerd Rabbit thing. I wnet through, the buck/doe are pedigreed, we just have to write it down and its at the other ranch so we will sind it to you.... yeah I never got it and it was a 70mi drive one way.

 

[skysthelimit]

Silver fox are not so rare that you can't find someone with pedigrees if you want them.

I would pass on these. If the owner had the rabbits registered, he would have had to have pedigrees to do that. If he bought two registered rabbits without getting the proper papers, then good luck getting them.

Kits are registrable not just because they are born, like dogs. They are registrable with a three generation pedigree with colors and weights (with no DQ's in the pedigree), the owner must be a member of the ARBA, the kit must be 6 mos and older with no disqualifying faults.

 

[SatinsRule]

You really should develop a line of predigreed rabbits from what you have or bring in a line that is pedigreed and start from there. Most responsible breeders are going to want to see what the background of a rabbit is before intro'ing into their breeding programs.

And yes, before anyone chimes in and says that pedigrees can be faked, anyone can do that but the chances of it happening are exponentially lower than one would think due to the fact that once it's on paper, their reputation is on the line. Passing around fake pedigrees will floor an operation as quickly as anything, and that's what will happen when word gets out that they've done it.

 

[Bad Habit]

Silver fox are not so rare that you can't find someone with pedigrees if you want them.

I would pass on these. If the owner had the rabbits registered, he would have had to have pedigrees to do that. If he bought two registered rabbits without getting the proper papers, then good luck getting them.

Kits are registrable not just because they are born, like dogs. They are registrable with a three generation pedigree with colors and weights (with no DQ's in the pedigree), the owner must be a member of the ARBA, the kit must be 6 mos and older with no disqualifying faults.

Does that mean to register my rabbits I would have to breed a three generation line of BEW? I believe that VM is a DQ, right?

 

[SatinsRule]

Silver fox are not so rare that you can't find someone with pedigrees if you want them.

I would pass on these. If the owner had the rabbits registered, he would have had to have pedigrees to do that. If he bought two registered rabbits without getting the proper papers, then good luck getting them.

Kits are registrable not just because they are born, like dogs. They are registrable with a three generation pedigree with colors and weights (with no DQ's in the pedigree), the owner must be a member of the ARBA, the kit must be 6 mos and older with no disqualifying faults.

Does that mean to register my rabbits I would have to breed a three generation line of BEW? I believe that VM is a DQ, right?

No, you can have a pedigree full of other varieties, but for it to be registerable, all of the rabbits listed on the document must be of the same breed.

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm pretty sure the registrar checks for DQ's, but I'm not sure how that applies to VM animals.

 

[Bad Habit]

Well, I wouldn't have to register the VM animals, would I? Do all animals on the pedigree need to be registered?

 

[skysthelimit]

Well, I wouldn't have to register the VM animals, would I? Do all animals on the pedigree need to be registered?

None of the animals on the pedigree need to be registered. Registration is only really necessary if you want to, or if you want to grand a rabbit. Not at all like dogs.

 

[Bad Habit]

Well, I don't have to worry about it until Lionheads are recognized, or in case I decide to start another breed, but I figure it's never too early to start learning!!

Now, three generation... is that kit, parent, grandparents, or kit, parent, grandparent, great grandparent.

 

[MamaMandy]

It's kit, parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.

 

[Wolfeh]

Well just from the pictures I have seen they look like silver foxes but I was really concerned about him being a scammer but he seems sincere so I think I will take the plunge and see what I get, lol. His last reply was:

I don't know much about all the papers and registering. I just got these rabbits as pets for my daughter and didn't really care either way if they were registered or not. I totally understand you wanting to know for sure. I'm just going off of what he told me that the two I have are registered. I want to see all the paperwork myself so I can figure it all out. I will let you know as soon as I do. I will be around all next week. Thanks.

If he has the parents registered I'll at least get the info on them and see if I can get the pedigree myself...

Here are the pictures by the way, taken when they were 3 months old:

I still would like to register and have that pedigree even if it isn't required for showing. Just gives me some reassurance, lol.<br /><br />__________ Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 am __________<br /><br />

 

[dragonladyleanne]

Those all look healthy, but I sort of doubt the light one is a Silver Fox. The breeder I got my Champagne buck from also had Silver Fox, (my 2 does are crosses between the 2 breeds) and they are all much darker than the one in the foreground of the 2nd photo. I could be wrong of course, as I haven't even been able to attend a rabbit show (the closest ones are 4 hours or more away). Maybe some of the SF breeders here can tell you?

 

[skysthelimit]

That could very possibly be a lilac SF, not a recognized color, but a SF still.
The second reply sounds honest. Just decide if you are willing to take animals w/o peds.
At this point for me, I will no longer take buns without peds, and will probably cull all of my unpedigreed mini rex.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

That could very possibly be a lilac SF, not a recognized color, but a SF still.

That's good to know, and not something likely to be found just doing net research!

 

[phillinley]

That's a blue silver fox. It will be showable at any ARBA show if the variety passes it's final presentation in Pennsylvania next year. The variety has been around a long time but it was dropped from the ARBA SoP a few decades ago when there were not enough people registering them. You can show them right now given they are in the certification process but they are only showable as presentation, they cannot compete with the other breeds or even with other black silver foxes. But we show our Chocolate Silver Foxes because you still get points in the Silver Fox Club sweepstakes. If you get the pedigree it should show in the lineage which relatives had blue in them.

You can breed them back to the black silver fox you already have and you'll get a mix, and then you can line breed them back if you like the variety.

 

[Wolfeh]

They are gorgeous and definitely well bred, the parents would be show winners and were tattooed so I'm sure they were registered or at least came from a breeder. Still don't have the pedigree but will supposedly be getting it, the guy seems honest, grows organic produce for farm stands and his daughter doesn't seem to have interest in the bunnies after finding a cat (though he doesn't seem to be selling the two adults yet, still has hope that she'll get into 4H with the rabbits). But it is funny that you mention Champagne's Leanne because where this guy got the rabbits from, his friend, also breeds champagnes!

Here are some pictures, only real good one is of the doe but even then low quality because I couldn't find the camera so I used our video camera which is webcam quality but you can still see the fur and body type pretty well:

Blue doe
(Kind of scrunched up in the corner, and the plastic bottom cage is temporary, getting her a wire one tomorrow)

Black buck

Black buck fur

Blue buck (haven't taken him out for better pictures yet)

Thanks for the pedigree info though, will come in handy if the pedigree doesn't come through or when I need to tackle out-crossing!

 

[skysthelimit]

That's a blue silver fox. It will be showable at any ARBA show if the variety passes it's final presentation in Pennsylvania next year. The variety has been around a long time but it was dropped from the ARBA SoP a few decades ago when there were not enough people registering them. You can show them right now given they are in the certification process but they are only showable as presentation, they cannot compete with the other breeds or even with other black silver foxes. But we show our Chocolate Silver Foxes because you still get points in the Silver Fox Club sweepstakes. If you get the pedigree it should show in the lineage which relatives had blue in them.

You can breed them back to the black silver fox you already have and you'll get a mix, and then you can line breed them back if you like the variety.

Looks a little light for a blue. Will it get darker or do you think that was just the lighting?<br /><br />__________ Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:01 am __________<br /><br />

They are gorgeous and definitely well bred, the parents would be show winners and were tattooed so I'm sure they were registered or at least came from a breeder. !

Having a tattoo does not mean it is registered. Anyone can tattoo their rabbits for ID purposes.
A registrars tattoo would be in the right ear, sometimes with a circled R in the ear. http://www.kimwhistlekingswarren.com/ar ... strar.html

I hope you enjoy your silver fox. They are a beautiful breed with wonderful personalities. If you are so inclined to butcher for meat any culls, the pelts are absolutely beautiful.