Crazy Angora genes run amok

[Zinnia]

It's more of the reverse here. As none of them had white ear markings or white ear lacing, it's more like I got Torts that were way too light in body color, not fawns that were so smutty they looked like Torts. None of my Holland torts were ever that light, but also I never had chocolate tort in the hollands either.

OK, don't hit me :roll: But, I'm going to mention the S word again.

A Sable Chin that was Steeled would lack the white inner ear.... <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:10 am __________ <br /><br />

So Sable Pearl?

Now that is a color I have never seen. That should be the same as sable point in JW right? I don't have any of those because I don't have the e gene in that herd.

aa B_ cchl_ D_ ee

If there's no chance of Steel in the mix, this genotype is what I would guess.

 

[skysthelimit]

Which sable chin are we talking about again? I'm talking torts above, they are visual torts, not at all like sable chins.
Torts with poor rufus.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:12 am __________

So Sable Pearl?

Now that is a color I have never seen. That should be the same as sable point in JW right? I don't have any of those because I don't have the e gene in that herd.

aa B_ cchl_ D_ ee

If there's no chance of Steel in the mix, this genotype is what I would guess.

i know the genetic theory. It's visual identification that I need here.

 

[Zinnia]

Opal's daughter's kit pictured left looks aa B- cchl- D- ee.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:15 am __________

However, the Opal's kit that is gray and shaded-looking looks nothing like a Tort to me... and that is the one I was referring to when I mentioned the S word - sorry <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:17 am __________ <br /><br /> Visual ID? Just Pearl.

 

[skysthelimit]

Opal's daughter's kit pictured left looks aa B- cchl- D- ee.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:15 am __________

However, the Opal's kit that is gray and shaded-looking looks nothing like a Tort to me... and that is the one I was referring to when I mentioned the S word - sorry

No, not calling that a tort, lol. Not at all. Not even close, no tort should every be that light. I'm talking about the whole fawn looking like it had points then going away. In my case it wasn't fawn with points going away, it was light with tort marks too light for tort.

Yes I know the genotype, knowing the genetics, it's not a color I have seen in life or at birth, never seen any pearls either, so it's not something I can picture just by looking at the genotype <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:21 am __________ <br /><br /> Come to think of it, I've never seen a Fawn either.

 

[Zinnia]

Yep - then we were talking about different bunnies in the last few posts....

Can't wait to see your Opal's kit grow out.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:25 am __________

Come to think of it, I've never seen a Fawn either.

You said this line is full of Agouti and non extension... surely you'd have seen a Fawn by now. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:37 am __________ <br /><br /> How many litters have you had from your Opal?

 

[skysthelimit]

Yep - then we were talking about different bunnies in the last few posts....

Can't wait to see your Opal's kit grow out.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:25 am __________

Come to think of it, I've never seen a Fawn either.

You said this line is full of Agouti and non extension... surely you'd have seen a Fawn by now.

__________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:37 am __________

How many litters have you had from your Opal?

Nope. The peds are all Fawns and Agoutis, same peds for the other buns, but I have not had any born here, and the breeder has never brought any to the shows, just her selfs and chins. She doesn't like them much. Some colors are not very popular at shows here, like Chin, Tort, Sables, Fawn.
This is litter four from this doe. The first litter there were no torts. The last two the only agoutis I got from her were chestnuts. She never had an Opals till now either, although the black sire carries dilute for sure. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:27 am __________ <br /><br /> I had chocolates born that first litter from two does. I haven't had a self chocolate born again, just chocolate and lilac torts. No chocolate or lilac agouti.

 

[Zinnia]

Well, you'll surely get Fawns in the future with those pedigrees. Opal is one of my favorite colors. I tend to keep more than I should.

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm hoping soon. Usually by litter four I would have culled this doe and moved on to the next generation, but she had not given me any agouti does that are keepers. Best does are always selfs, I might just lose the agouti gene in the barn because of it.

I hope this is not another version of the Sable curse. I have had Sable Rex for three years, and I still have not had a viable Sable litter born here yet.

 

[Zinnia]

Looks like you've got a Fawn in this litter. I hope it proves to be the quality of a keeper. I have SO many Fawns here. I think I have about 24 of them, plus about the same in Torts. That includes babies. My Chocolate based Fawns are beautiful, but I keep having to cull them for bad attitude or poor HQ. I am really hoping to see some of these kits grow out nicely.

 

[skysthelimit]

I have black. Every keeper has been black. I just squeezed by with the Chestnut and Tort bucks last litter.

__________ Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:01 pm __________

Oh forgot to say I do have a Steel in a totally unrelated litter. Gold tipped. It looks so funny in a litter full of Chestnut. I'm trying to decide if I want to keep it or cull it right out the box.

Looks too like the "Opals" may also be shaded agoutis. Not pleased at all with that, but it means this doe is more valuable to me than I thought. I love shaded, I will just have to clean this mess up and breed to the REW buck. Unfortunately, the Rew buck is not pedigreed, he's a FA cross, and this was just supposed to be a test, he was not supposed to cross into my pure stock.

 

[Zinnia]

How big is that litter with the Steel in it and how old are they? Since it's the most dominant E, there's a better chance half the litter is Steel (if you know that one is Steel). Are there any Self kits? Those are the sneaky ones. Your GTS likely looked Self at birth, but the Steel kits that carry non-extension are the ones that will likely stay Self looking even if they are Steel.

I love Sable french Angora, too. But, I also love the unrecognized Sable Chin. It's one of my favorites.

 

[skysthelimit]

How big is that litter with the Steel in it and how old are they? Since it's the most dominant E, there's a better chance half the litter is Steel (if you know that one is Steel). Are there any Self kits? Those are the sneaky ones. Your GTS likely looked Self at birth, but the Steel kits that carry non-extension are the ones that will likely stay Self looking even if they are Steel.

I love Sable french Angora, too. But, I also love the unrecognized Sable Chin. It's one of my favorites.

At the moment there are only 5. She had five more but this doe always manages to cull her litters down to just 5.

Actually only one in the litter is a visual steel, the rest are chestnuts. From what I remember, all but 2 were agouti marked. They are about 10 days old now.

The doe is from a cross litter specifically bred to find Steel in another breed, just to prove a point. Seems the point was well proved. <br /><br /> __________ Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:14 pm __________ <br /><br /> Pictures of the Steel are on the Silver Fox/Angora cross thread.

I do my best to avoid unshowable colors, my herd is just too small. What bothers me is the shaded Opals in the litter will be culls automatically, about half the litter. I'll do my best to get a few litters of good shaded rabbits, then that will become my main herd, and I will phase out the agoutis (except chins).

New pictures are of Blossoms litter, the daughter of the Opal. For her, inheriting the sable gene is the best thing that could have happened to me.



They still look nothing like my JW sables, mush be a line thing, they are much shinier. Looks like sable, chocolate sable, lilac pearl and chocolate pearl.

 

[Zinnia]

Ooooh! They ARE pretty little things, aren't they? I finally have Sable in my Self lines (where it can produce recognized colors). Now, it's a matter of sorting the little guys in the future by breeding to REW.

 

[skysthelimit]

So...

I don't believe the kits are Opal anymore.

I haven't had an Opal yet from the Opal doe (despite the herd sire carrying dilute and having blue torts).

Until a few weeks ago, I never had an Opal anything, even though my main Rex herd is predominantly agoutis who carried dilute.

Took another look today, and they look like Chins.

 

[Zinnia]

They look just like my Sable Chins. A_ B_ cchl_ D_ E_

This is a color I adore. I think they get even more beautiful as they get older, too.

 

[skysthelimit]

They do. Not what I'm shooting for however Better to know now, so I don't use this doe, her daughter or the kits in the chin program. But it's a very nice start to the shaded program.

These Angoras have really been interesting. I though my Rex carried a lot of colors. So far, from 4 rabbits I've gotten Steel, Fawn, Tort, Sable Agouti, Pearl, Sable, Chestnut, Black, Blue.

 

[LPH_NY]

OMG... that middle kit with the darker nose... CUTEST little thing EVER!