Confused about grain

[Fenwaldfarmstead]

Hello!

I just got my first rabbits yesterday, so I'm studying up on bunny food, and I'm really confused about grain. I'm planning to feed free choice grass hay, LOTS of garden scraps, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS as a tonic "as needed." I've noticed that commercial feeds and most feeding programs here on the site add grain of some kind; usually oats, sometimes barley or wheat. Why?

What is it meant to accomplish? Does it fatten or bulk them up it better than BOSS? Do they need the carbohydrates? I thought the 15% protein in the alfalfa pellets was about right for them... Also, does the high fiber content in oats have anything to do with why people prefer them?

Grain is pretty expensive around here, so if I buy some I definitely want to know why and why a particular grain over others. Around here, corn and barley are a dollar cheaper than oats, and wheat is a dollar cheaper than that. Alfalfa pellets are yet another dollar cheaper than oats.

Any advice or input would be wonderful! FF.

 

[MaggieJ]

I feed a natural diet of free choice alfalfa hay, a bit of grain and as many greens (see the Safe Plants List - link below) as the season allows. In winter I feed smaller amounts of fresh foods, but they get limited amounts of root crops, pumpkin, cabbage (go easy with this one!) and vegetable trimmings. I also grow wheat grass/fodder for them. (See link below.)

When I first started with natural feeding back in 2007, I found that the rabbits never seemed satisfied without a bit of grain. I suspect they need the carbohydrates and possibly the calories as well. I've seen wild cottontails pull down the stalks of grasses when the seeds are ripe with great enthusiasm. The amount of grain does not have to be large... and if wheat is cheaper, by all means use it. You could take a wait and see approach... Possibly your rabbits will not require grain. I feed approximately a quarter cup of grain per rabbit per day.

Just a note that your rabbits may not like the alfalfa pellets. In general, members report that the rabbits often reject them... and there goes your protein. Hope you'll be more fortunate, but if not you could try the alfalfa cubes. Most rabbits seem to accept them.

With natural feeding, you also need to give them a trace mineral salt block. I use the reddish brown ones for general livestock. They weigh about 4 pounds and only cost a couple of dollars.

safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html
fodder-sprouting-systems-anyone-t10317.html

 

[Ptbunny8087]

It just adds a little protein and helps with fiber. Also be careful on the garden scraps to much can get them sick but the free choice hay is good for them.

TO accomplish means that you can add stuff. I would say better than BOSS but I would say about the same. I dont give them carbohydrates and they are fine. The alfalfa hay is just right for them. Some pellets dont have much fiber as a rabbit need so some breeders give the oats to keep them on track.

 

[MaggieJ]

It would be helpful, Ptbunny, if you would give more detail about how you do feed your rabbits.

 

[akane]

Breeding rabbits need a lot of energy but there are different types of energy and too much BOSS will make them fat instead because it relies on straight fat and calorie content and alfalfa doesn't have the calories by itself. You can feed unlimited alfalfa and not have a fat rabbit. The lower fat but high carbohydrate grain fits a missing energy need and it makes them feel fuller. They'll eat a lot less hay and be more satisfied. Oats are just the most common thing in most areas but barley and wheat work equally well.

 

[skysthelimit]

Garden scraps will not upset them if they are started from an early age or started slowly. The rabbits in the grow out pen are fed only weeds, veggie leaves/stalks, tree branches and whatever else I can finding the yard, until they are butchered, which can be several months depending on the age they go out there.

I feed only pellets to the others as grains are way too expensive here. But I have added BOSS in the wintertime for the extra fat to keep these guys warm.

 

[Fenwaldfarmstead]

Thank you! I should have mentioned that I did pick up a mineral block for them. So far they are chowing down on hay like there's no tomorrow! I guess they are making up for just getting pellets their whole lives. THey picked through the feeder and ate the commercial pellets, but, like you warned, they rejected the alfalfa. We are trying to transition them over, so I'm still holding out hope that they'll decide to eat alfalfa (if not, I don't know what protein I'll have for them!).

Anyone know why they reject alfalfa? Is it size, or is there some palatability issue? Maybe if I ran them through a crack corn grinder they'd try 'em? If they're anything like poultry, it takes them awhile to try it, but once they taste it they'll manage to scarf it no matter how awkward the size. Maybe soak some in a tiny bit of stock molassas to get they're mouths watering for it? So far I've tried wagging it in front of their noses going "C'mon, try it, you like it!" lol! Doens't seem to be working. Maybe I'll eat some and see if it tastes nasty for some reason. Well, nasty compared to alfalfa hay, lol!

I'm hoping to eventually be able to feed them mainly on scraps from the market garden. It's kind of an experiment to see if we can turn a garden byproduct into bunnies. Since all they've had is pellets, I'll introduce things super gradually so their systems can adjust. For the next couple weeks we'll just focus on getting off the complete ration pellets and onto the hay, alfalfa, and maybe grain.

ANYway, back to the grain It sounds like most people feed grain not so much to supply a specific nutrient requirement as just based on empirical observations; if they seem to need it, feed it? Right now I'm thinking start without it, and if they seem hungry or seem to lose a little condition, give wheat.. If they still seem poorly, switch to oats? But maybe I'll try adding BOSS first if they seem a little unthrifty. Or maybe just feed BOSS in the winter b/c of the fat content (it gets 100+ in the summer here) and grain in the summer to fulfill the same function? MaggieJ, when you first started natural feed and they seemed unsatisfied (before adding the grain), were you feeding BOSS?

Yeah, Ptbunny, I would love to hear more about your rabbits' performance with and without the grain. I'm not too concerned about fiber due to the free-choice hay, so that would seem to eliminate the advantage of oats over the cheaper wheat. I'm confused about the protein; wouldn't feeding oats lower both the protein and the fiber content of just alfalfa, not raise it? The flaked oats at my feed store run about 9% protein, 11% fiber; the alfalfa alone is 15% protein, 28% fiber. So again I come back to alfalfa alone plus free choice hay as being a better ration than adding grain? I'm still confused! :shrug:<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:50 am __________<br /><br />Oooh, new input!
Akane, that totally makes sense about the grain vs BOSS! Thank you! I think I'll google 'carbohydrates in rabbit ration' and learn as much as I can! I need to make sure that what I'm buying gives the most 'missing energy need' bang for my buck! (and my dough.. ok sorry.)

skysthelimit, that's awesome! Sounds similar to what I'd like to do someday. I'm curious-- are you raising your SF this way? How long does it usually take them to make weight compared to feeding pellets? How heavy do you normally process them? and.. how do they taste on that kind of forage?

Thanks again, everyone! This bunny thing is slowly starting to make sense

 

[MaggieJ]

ANYway, back to the grain It sounds like most people feed grain not so much to supply a specific nutrient requirement as just based on empirical observations; if they seem to need it, feed it? Right now I'm thinking start without it, and if they seem hungry or seem to lose a little condition, give wheat.. If they still seem poorly, switch to oats? But maybe I'll try adding BOSS first if they seem a little unthrifty. Or maybe just feed BOSS in the winter b/c of the fat content (it gets 100+ in the summer here) and grain in the summer to fulfill the same function? MaggieJ, when you first started natural feed and they seemed unsatisfied (before adding the grain), were you feeding BOSS?

I was working from the ingredients in rabbit pellets, supplying alfalfa hay and grain because that is what most rabbit pellets are made from. I also cut buckets of weeds. Weeds are probably the best thing you can give to your rabbits... especially the invasive European weeds because they are the rabbit's natural food. Our rabbits are of European background as well. It takes a little time to learn about the weeds, but it is well worth doing because they are wonderful and because they are free. Much better for the buns than garden scraps, although you can use many of those as well.

I didn't feed BOSS at that time. You have to remember that back then very few people on the forums were feeding naturally... and those who were took a lot of criticism for it. Now it is trendy but there is no one right way to do it.

If your rabbits continue to reject the alfalfa pellets, try the alfalfa cubes. I am blessed that here I can get good alfalfa hay cheap, but I did use the cubes one spring when I ran short. Growing fodder can also supply good protein.

 

[skysthelimit]

skysthelimit, that's awesome! Sounds similar to what I'd like to do someday. I'm curious-- are you raising your SF this way? How long does it usually take them to make weight compared to feeding pellets? How heavy do you normally process them? and.. how do they taste on that kind of forage?

Thanks again, everyone! This bunny thing is slowly starting to make sense

Well the SF never made it to the growout pen They do grow noticeably slower than the pellet buns. I don't really have a weight, it's really when I get tired of them. I want pelts more than anything, so the longer I keep them, the better the pelt.
I have no answer to the taste, I don't eat them. They are food for my dogs. I know, a waste

 

[HoppyMeal]

Fenwaldfarmstead,
I feed my rabbits 17% pellets. After my litters start coming out of the nest box, I put a crock filled with whole oats in the cage until I wean the youngins. The whole oats are used to put weight on the buns faster. After I wean them, they go out into the grow out pens and get fed pellets, whole oats and fescue hay until freezer camp. The adults rabbits (unless they have young) do not get fed the oats. Too many oats will make them fat. I currently have a rabbit that had got the runs 2 weeks ago and lost a lot of weight, I thought she might die. I fed her applesauce through a syringe and gave her bounce back through a syringe twice a day. She would not eat or drink for a week. At the end of the week I fed her mashed up pellets through a syringe. She still would not eat her pellets. I then fed her the whole oats and she started eating them. She has now put almost all the weight back on her that she had lost. Sorry for getting off track.
Depending on how many rabbits your feeding a 50 lb bag of oats will last a long time. I bought a bag in June and I bet I still have 40 Lbs. left. 2 cups of oats in a crock will last several days. In a wall hung feeder they seem to waste a lot. Hope this helps.

 

[Frecs]

My rabbits tricked me. I thought when I gave them a sample of alfalfa pellets that most of them ate them. After buying 50lbs of it, turns out they all hate it! I was talking to the guy at the feed store (he finds my experiments interesting) and we both agreed that part of the problem is likely the smell. The alfalfa pellets are wicked strong in odor while the rabbit pellets (which include alfalfa but also grains and other stuff) are much milder in odor. Likely, that translates into taste as well.

Also, the pellets break down into chunky powder very easily and we all know that rabbits don't like the "fines".

I'm thinking of mixing the alfalfa pellets with chopped grass/weeds and adding a bit of feed molasses to help the taste factor. Anything to not waste 50lbs worth of feed.

My rabbits MUCH prefer sprouted grains to pellets. In fact, I think their order of preference is: rosebush, sprouted grains, willow, ....

 

[MaggieJ]

Tina, you could try getting a spray bottle and mixing some blackstrap/feed molasses with some apple cider vinegar. A spray over the alfalfa pellets might just entice them to eat them and the "topping" is both nutritious and palatable. It would likely be best just to add the topping when you feed them, rather than in advance.

 

[Ptbunny8087]

It would be helpful, Ptbunny, if you would give more detail about how you do feed your rabbits.

ok, but its my comment not yours

 

[Frecs]

Tina, you could try getting a spray bottle and mixing some blackstrap/feed molasses with some apple cider vinegar. A spray over the alfalfa pellets might just entice them to eat them and the "topping" is both nutritious and palatable. It would likely be best just to add the topping when you feed them, rather than in advance.

Good thinking!

Over the weekend, I tried mixing in molasses with the alfalfa pellets/sprouted grains and it was a big hit! Mixing the molasses with ACV would make it easier to mix and add another element of goodness (good taste and good for them).

MaggieJ, you are a ROCKSTAR!!!