Would it be ok to breed a harlequin with sooty fawn parents to a blue eyed white?
Color question for Blue Eyed White project
- Thread starter squidpop
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What do you mean by 'is it okay' ?
You can breed anything you want
But you will likely get a whole litter of Vienna marked rabbits and this is not a showable colour in any breed.
PS If the parents of the harli were both sooty fawn then it is unlikely your rabbit is harlequin as they must have a harli parent. Is it possible one of the parents is actually a harli?
You can breed anything you want
But you will likely get a whole litter of Vienna marked rabbits and this is not a showable colour in any breed.
PS If the parents of the harli were both sooty fawn then it is unlikely your rabbit is harlequin as they must have a harli parent. Is it possible one of the parents is actually a harli?
Blossomacres
Active member
Yes, you can breed pretty much any color to your BEWs. It is a good idea to stay away from shadeds and chocolates though as this can cause a ruby glow to your BEW's eyes. All the babies in the litter will carry the BEW gene and you should also get some mismarks in the litter. The carriers could be shown if the color and type was right but the mismarks obviously can't, but they are excellent for BEW breeding programs.
Oh- one of the parents was a harley. The reason I asked about the sooty fawn is because I know chocolate is one of the colors that you are not supposed to use in BEW projects because there's a ruby cast but I don't know if sooty fawns can have a ruby cast or not. I know I will get mostly VMs but this harley baby has one VM parent and a white spot so am hoping it is VM carrier so some babies will be BEW.
paintrider89
Well-known member
I have a Harley doe with no Harley parent. A black self and a blue Vienna. And my blue Vienna doe had a Harley with a Vienna buck.Dood":2hsuzbri said:What do you mean by 'is it okay' ?
You can breed anything you want
But you will likely get a whole litter of Vienna marked rabbits and this is not a showable colour in any breed.
PS If the parents of the harli were both sooty fawn then it is unlikely your rabbit is harlequin as they must have a harli parent. Is it possible one of the parents is actually a harli?
I understand now. The Rudy cast should only effect rabbits that are really chocolate (or sable or chin or blue or himilayan or REW ) under their white coat. It should not affect rabbits that just carry one of these genes. Hopefully the parents are not chocolate fawns ( it can be hard to tell) and that neither the BEW or harli carry it.
I don't think a ruby cast is a disqualification in BEW, just not approved of.
Harli can hide in self rabbits that are full extension. Sooty fawn are agouti based and non-extension so there would be evidence of the harli gene.
Dilute doesn't give you ruby cast, Dood - it can give you dull blue eyes, but even that's not a guarantee. My vienna marked blue stud had an eye that was half bright blue from vienna, and the rest the dull blue of dilute.
REW over top of BEW gives you just a REW with BEW underneath, with something else underneath the BEW. Just one c or ch gene with a C gene does not give you red eyes, so doesn't cause a cast to it. Same with cchd and cchl under C.
REW over top of BEW gives you just a REW with BEW underneath, with something else underneath the BEW. Just one c or ch gene with a C gene does not give you red eyes, so doesn't cause a cast to it. Same with cchd and cchl under C.
This is hard for my little brain. But I think I'm starting to get it. I hope all my rabbits always get a C gene. There's only one breeder in New Zealand who has Jersey Woolies that are self blacks and black otters that don't carry sable, chin and rew, but she almost never sells her stock to anyone— she seems to be just hanging on to them :angry: and she also has the most typey ones as well. And there's another breeder that has black in her litters but she's working on chocolate so they carry chocolate. And all the other people are breeding shaded smoke pearls and hemis. With the exception of the one breeder who is breeding otters and brokens- and I got a broken pattern doe from her but I can see where eventually, if I line breed, it will lead me to all charlies which wouldn't matter so much for the BEWS-- but I wanted to be able to get some beautiful black and white dutch marked with blue eyes because thats my favorite :roll: Bews are tricky.Bad Habit":2urvf3r4 said:
Also, I've googled Rew Bew eye color before and found some really weird pictures of eyes that are red in the middle and then flesh colored
with sort of a outer ring of lavender blue. It sounds like it might look cool but the flesh color isn't very nice- I don't know if its the rew or sable genes causing that but i don't want that to happen.I can probably find you some photos of vienna + cchl and vienna + dilute eyes, since that's what I was originally working with for rabbits. I also had a BEW kit born that had cchl under the BEW, and she had weird eyes. It's not really a nice combination, and it can get really hard to breed it all out.
As far as charlie under BEW - the only problem I see with that is the health weakness that's reported in charlie stock. I've heard bad things about their health that they are prone to digestive problems and weaning enteritis. I always plan to avoid broken x broken breedings, just for that reason. I have noticed that false charlies I get tend to have more digestive issues than the brokens or solids in the same litter as well.
I would ask the breeder that doesn't often sell stock specifically for what you need - buck or doe, colour preferred. She may just not advertise her litters for sale, or she may have a long waiting list to get one of her kits, but I think it is definitely worth a shot, asking after them and telling her why you want them. She may not want to sell because she's worried about the kits being neglected, or she could be worried about competition in shows. The worst she is going to say, though, is that she doesn't sell rabbits, or that she doesn't have any for sale at all.
Black vienna(with or without blue eyes) was something I wanted in my herd. I'd really love to get a nice vienna lionhead doe, just for pet breedings, but then I'd want to keep expanding and get a pair to make BEW. I love the bews too, lol.
As far as charlie under BEW - the only problem I see with that is the health weakness that's reported in charlie stock. I've heard bad things about their health that they are prone to digestive problems and weaning enteritis. I always plan to avoid broken x broken breedings, just for that reason. I have noticed that false charlies I get tend to have more digestive issues than the brokens or solids in the same litter as well.
I would ask the breeder that doesn't often sell stock specifically for what you need - buck or doe, colour preferred. She may just not advertise her litters for sale, or she may have a long waiting list to get one of her kits, but I think it is definitely worth a shot, asking after them and telling her why you want them. She may not want to sell because she's worried about the kits being neglected, or she could be worried about competition in shows. The worst she is going to say, though, is that she doesn't sell rabbits, or that she doesn't have any for sale at all.
Black vienna(with or without blue eyes) was something I wanted in my herd. I'd really love to get a nice vienna lionhead doe, just for pet breedings, but then I'd want to keep expanding and get a pair to make BEW. I love the bews too, lol.
Bad Habit":2pz67nn2 said:
That's not good news for me because I think my one blue eyed white is a charlie under his BEW. Both His parents were from solid to broken breedings- VM carriers so he could have inherited a solid gene but maybe not. He poos irregular shaped poos all the time (like too big) and doesn't tolerate fresh greens well. And I also bought a broken Jersey wooly doe (best type I could find) and the only thing I could find that didn't carry sable- so from that breeding there will be Charlies.
I wonder if the double broken = digestive problems has something to do with the those color pattern genes or if its just in some of the lines in the US and doesn't have anything to do with the genes?
__________ Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:26 pm __________
Later on I might post a broader question on this forum- "Has anyone had Charlies with digestive problems" and see what people have experienced with theirs. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a link to the genes because in dogs- if you breed two Harlequin great danes or two merles all sorts of horrible things happen- most notably blindness and deafness but also nervous disorders and heart problems.
Too much white with coloured eyes in many domestic mammals have issues.
extremely white American Bulldogs and Boxers
double merle in several breeds - Danes, Aussies, Collies, Dachshunds, etc
lethal white overo in horses
Blue eyed white cats
and many of the disorders are digestive system related.
extremely white American Bulldogs and Boxers
double merle in several breeds - Danes, Aussies, Collies, Dachshunds, etc
lethal white overo in horses
Blue eyed white cats
and many of the disorders are digestive system related.
I agree with Bad Habit. I have blue chinchilla rabbits and they can have similar eye colours. Ususlly they darken or turn more grey with age.
A BEW is bright white and should not have any points or coloured areas and the eyes are a clear blue.
Over here that rabbit would be called a blue frosted pearl, blue frosty or blue ermine and genetically is A_ B_ cchd_ OR cchl_ dd ee
A BEW is bright white and should not have any points or coloured areas and the eyes are a clear blue.
Over here that rabbit would be called a blue frosted pearl, blue frosty or blue ermine and genetically is A_ B_ cchd_ OR cchl_ dd ee
Oh derp. The image name is blue ghost chin, LOL. It's a dilute, those are dilute blue grey.
I only speak from experience. I gave up on my BEWs because no breeder wanted to buy my rabbits due to cchl in my lines(bad for BEW) or the vienna in my lines(bad for everything else). I learned the hard way that it is SO much better to start with quality stock than to start with poor stock and breed out what you don't want.
I only speak from experience. I gave up on my BEWs because no breeder wanted to buy my rabbits due to cchl in my lines(bad for BEW) or the vienna in my lines(bad for everything else). I learned the hard way that it is SO much better to start with quality stock than to start with poor stock and breed out what you don't want.
That may be why all the other breeders where I am have given up too. I've heard them make negative comments toward BEW like it will ruin the breed. I think that's because in the past people bred minilops into flemish giants and so theres lots of mis-shapen flemish giants here with white markings. Also, I put up a post on breeder notice board here to see if someone wanted to work on the project with me and got not takers.
paintrider89
Well-known member
Dood":2v1qbsct said:
O. Ok.
