Color Genetics

[Brian]

Hey ya'll, new to the site and rabbits. Appreciate all the info that is out there. I've got two American Blue bucks, a NZ Red doe, Cali doe, and meat mutt doe. Don't know much about genetics, but wanted to fool around with the blues and the reds. I reckon I'll find out for myself when I do a breeding, but can I get both colors from breeding a blue buck to a NZ red doe? I know the blue buck has white in his background. Kinda trying to get a red rabbit with the body shape of a blue. Seems like I could breed the two and luck up, but I also realize it is something that may require a few generations. Again, I'm not looking for show quality body types. Just playing around to see if I can get some similarities. But to all you geneticists out there, is there a quick way to get that red color on a mandolin shape using these two breeds?

Thanks

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

Hey Brian - welcome! I've been breeding for years - NZ Whites. Never had to worry about color, worried about form and weight and growing speed, etc. Now have NZ blacks and reds and some Rex rabbits and this whole color genetics thing has my mind boggled.

Will look for others with much more experience to respond. You'll learn a lot from this site. Good to have you along!

 

[caroline]

If you breed a red rabbits A_ B_ C_ D_ ee
To a blue rabbit aa B_ C_ dd E_
You will probably not end up with a red rabbit.
You will probably get the chestnut/castor “wild type” coat color
A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee
Because the red rabbit is homozygous for non-extension “ee” it is best to breed it to another red rabbit or else you will be introducing the recessive “e” gene into a line of rabbits that probably doesn’t carry it and you can end up with coat colors you may not want.
For example, if you breed the blue rabbit to the red rabbit and then breed the kits to each other you will get several varieties of tortoise shell
aa Bb C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
aa B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell
You could also get red in this generation
And cream/fawn A_ B_ C_ dd ee
There are several sites that discuss rabbit coat color genetic and give the genotypes foe the 144 possible combinations. Just google "rabbit coat color” and you can read as much as you want

 

[Dood]

You will not likely get red in the first generation but should get some in the second.

The red is caused by two recessive genes acting on a plain chestnut rabbit - non-extension and wideband. The rich rusty red is caused by another set of genes called Rufus factors, the more Rufus factors the redder the rabbit. As Rufus or red tinting is not desirable in blue rabbits your Americans probably have no, or very few, Rufus factors and your first group of reds will actually look more fawn or orange.

The blue is caused by the self and dilution reccessive genes modifying a chestnut rabbit. Just the self gene will create blacks and adding the dilution creates blue.

The first generation of red on blue will likely result in chestnuts and possibly blacks and REW depending on any hidden recessives your stock carries. All of theses kits will carry the self, blue/dilution gene, non-extension and wideband genes. Keep the chestnuts with a mandolin shape for breeding stock but if the there is another colour kit with better body type you can use it, unless it is REW (try and get this gene out of your stock as it hides a rabbits true colour) as well but it will take longer to get the red colour.

If you breed a brother to a sister chestnut from this litter you will start getting all sorts of colours, including red.

Learning the genotype is very helpful in sorting out colours as names vary according to breed
Genetically your
Blue = aa B_ Cc dd E_ WW
Red = A_ B_ C_ D_ ee ww

If you know what colour the parents of your rabbits were or their sibling or offspring we can fill in some of the blank spots

First generation chestnut = Aa __ __ Dd Ee Ww
First generation black = aa __ __ Dd Ee Ww
First generation REW = __ __ cc Dd Ee Ww

__________ Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:51 am __________

Aa Bb C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
A_ B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

I think auto correct may have capitalized the 'a' in error
The correct genotype is..
aa B_ C_ D_ ee black tortoise shell
aa B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

 

[caroline]

Aa Bb C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
A_ B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

I think auto correct may have capitalized the 'a' in error
The correct genotype is..
aa B_ C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
aa B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

How tactful of you Dood. It wasn't the auto correct. It was the clueless typer. thanks for noticing

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Welcome to RT!!! I love blues...got nothing to add (the others are much better at color genetics than I am) just wanted to say blues rock.

Aa Bb C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
A_ B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

I think auto correct may have capitalized the 'a' in error
The correct genotype is..
aa B_ C_ Dd ee black tortoise shell
aa B_ C_ dd ee blue tortoise shell

How tactful of you Dood. It wasn't the auto correct. It was the clueless typer. thanks for noticing

LOL!!!

 

[Brian]

Thank all of ya'll- especially Caroline and Dood- for taking the time to spell all that out for me. I knew from breeding dogs that some colors mask others or whatnot. I'm still pretty ignorant of genetics, although it seems simple enough if you know what all the letters stand for lol. I think my main problem to start will be that my NZ Red ain't as red as I wanted, but it was the only one around.

I love the blues too. I'm sure by time mine get up and going everybody will have them (heck, everybody already has them) but they are beautiful rabbits. I think I've got a good start with what ya'll gave me. I'll keep ya'll updated. At least I know it is possible.

Thanks ya'll

__________ Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:47 am __________

Oh yea, forgot to add. Both of my blue bucks had two blue parents and my red doe is from two solid reds if that helps with the blanks any.

 

[JessiL]

Also be ready for some steels (Es_) to pop up. Apparently lots of Americans have those genes lurking, and they will only show themselves when paired with agouti genes. That's what I am seeing in my herd; my American Blue herd sire has at least one steel gene, and when crossed with my chestnut American doe, they throw gold-tipped black steel all of the time. I enjoy seeing them, since I'm breeding mostly for meat, but they could be annoying if you were aiming for something in particular.

Have fun with your experiment!