Color Conundrum!

[Twobirdsfarm]

Ok, so with our newest litters a couple of questions/confusions have come to me. I have an English Angora REW buck, a fawn doe, and a lilac tort doe. The does are sisters. I have bred both does to the buck twice. The fawn doe produced broken black, lilac tort, blue, and blue pearl in the first litter. The lilac tort doe's litter didn't survive but there were definitely broken chocolate and broken black in her litter. The 2nd litter for both does were born 9/15, so it's a little early to tell, but it looks like the fawn doe had a blue, a lilac, two broken black, one REW, and a blue pearl. At first I thought the lilac tort doe had one blue, one lilac, one broken black, and three REW, but now their colors are changing. One looks to be a pearl and the other two are turning into a very light lilac-ish color? Definitely not white and yet definitely lighter than the other lilac.

So my first question is, is there a way to have a double dilute? Like a combination of the light chin gene and the dilute gene?

Secondly, as far as I understand, to have a pearl requires the light chin gene, but my REW would have to be cc and, if I have REW kits, that means the does would have to be Cc. So how did that happen?

I hope this doesn't sound too confusing! Thanks everyone!
- TBF

 

[Dood]

So my first question is, is there a way to have a double dilute? Like a combination of the light chin gene and the dilute gene?

Yes. The chin and dilute/blue genes are on different colour locus so yes you can have blue chins or blue sables or blue himilayans or blue REW (that are secretly blue)

I haven't seen Yeti's eye colour but I am assuming he is a REW

Daphne's is a fawn (or orange / cream whatever term the angora people use :mrgreen: ) and her C- locus is definitely full colour and a recessive - if she had a REW kit she must carry that gene and cannot produce a pearl - BUT could the REW be a frosty / ermine instead? (White with dark eyes)

I have not seen a picture of Delilah the lilac tort but since she hasn't produced a REW she could carry the light chin/shaded gene or if she isn't a tort (full colour) but a lilac sable she would have two recessive on her C-locus and be both light chin and REW

 

[Twobirdsfarm]

Thanks for the input Dood!
So Yeti is definitely an REW. His eyes are red (though you can't see them in this pic, lol).


Here's Daphne:


And here's Delilah:


And here's the blue pearl baby from Daphne's June litter, Yak:


Here's what I'm guessing:
Delilah's "white" babies now look like two very light lilacs and a pearl. Funny enough, what originally looked like a self lilac kit is now showing tort overtones.
With Daphne's kits it's still unclear, but, if the does both carry the light chin gene and not the REW gene then they'll be pearls as well. So maybe there really aren't any REW kits and everything makes sense....if they turn out to be REW then my whole theory is blown out of the water :roll:

The only other thing I find odd is that with Daphne being fawn and throwing self, she must have Aa, but we haven't gotten any agouti kits in either litter?

Oooh, I love this stuff!
- TBF

 

[Dood]

It happens, you've only had 2 litters and apparently Bad Habits red buck has only had 1 agouti out of 21 kits :shock:

Daphne certainly looks agouti to me in the pictures - she has lighter coloured fur around her eyes and her belly fur looks to be lighter as well. If in fact her belly is the same or darker she might be a tort of some sort - possibly chocolate?

 

[Twobirdsfarm]

Mornin Dood!

1 out of 21?!?! That's crazy!

And yes, Daphne is definitely a fawn (which is the black based version of cream, at least according to us angora people =P). Which is agouti with non-extension, and her belly is very light, but not white. The more I look at Delilah the more I think she's a chocolate, not a lilac. Her nose is very dark for a lilac.

Yesterday we took more baby pics! At it looks like the kit I suspected of being REW in Daphne's litter is actually a very light broken lilac. Of the three "white" kits in Delilah's litter, there was one I thought was pearl since all I saw was some light point color, but now that kit is also showing some very lovely light lilac spotting!

Dalilah's Litter. On top, from left to right: Lilac (possibly lilac tort), blue, light lilac. Not the best pic, but they wouldn't hold still! :roll:


Daphne's Litter. You can sort of see the spots on one of the white kits.

And Daphne's super cute lilac tort baby


What do y'all think?
Can't wait to see what these munchkins grow into!
- TBF

 

[Dood]

The "whites" look more like sable points to me - aa __ cchl_ __ ee

 

[Twobirdsfarm]

Yes, I forgot to put that in my post this morning (not enough coffee!). I think what I'm dealing with here is the cchl gene, in both does, which is making things interesting. Oh, and sable is the same as pearl for "angora people". :roll: :lol:

 

[Dood]

I think you've got an fawn and not a lilac tort the white eye rings and belly indicate the agouti gene. A very smutty fawn but definitely a fawn of some sort.

 

[Zass]

I think you've got an fawn and not a lilac tort the white eye rings and belly indicate the agouti gene. A very smutty fawn but definitely a fawn of some sort.

I agree that's an agouti, but are you sure it's a fawn and not a genetic lynx?

 

[Dood]

Yeah a lynx (lilac agouti) is possible and not a smutty fawn!

In non angoras the full extension lynx have darker tips but it might be impossible to tell in angora :shrug:

 

[Zass]

Here's one of the non-angora lynx kits from my litters. (In this case by lynx I mean lilac agouti, like dood said, A_ bb C_ dd E_, something else might be called lynx in angora?

It gets tawnier as it gets older..

 

[Twobirdsfarm]

Oh cute!!!
Angora kits look just like that at that age, before all the fluff comes in.

Nice job you guys! I didn't even notice the eye rings on that kit! I had what I thought was a lilac tort boy in Daphne's June litter, but maybe he's a lynx too? He has the light eye rings, lilac nose and ears, but his coat grew out in a fawny color? It didn't do the ticking with the dark undercoat I see on your kit, Zass. And he didn't have a light belly as a baby, which I thought was the first sign of agouti?


And yes, lynx is lynx for angoras too
Thank you!
- TBF

 

[JessicaR]

I don't know much about color, but I just had to say... Those rabbits are so cute!! I think one of these years I need to get me a pet English angora!

 

[akane]

I had a simple blue otter trip me up recently. The light belly and markings were not obvious when she was young. Then one day around 8 weeks I saw a huge brown mark behind her ears. A self blue can't have a color mark there. :? Looked closer and where the heck did that white come from.... So the doe I kept because she's dilute and self is a self carrying otter. :fainting:

 

[Twobirdsfarm]

I can't believe how the color is changing on these kits. Check it out!
- TBF




<br /><br /> __________ Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:30 am __________ <br /><br /> And this one is trying to convince me it's an REW (genetically impossible) but it's starting to show some shading on the tips of its ears.

- TBF