Chocolate and Blue Rex- Common?

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MuddyFarms

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Hey- I don't have any way to be going to shows, so I thought asking here might be a good way to find this out. I am curious how common chocolate Rex are (not mini Rex)? Specifically in broken and solid. Are they a more frequently desired color or something people aren't really interested in? I got a broken chocolate doe in one of my litters that I am trying to decide on keeping, and I am not sure how often I will get one (I have produced a lot of kits and only seem to have two rabbits that will produce the chocolates right now). I could always get chocolates later going the long way around, but I would rather just hang on to this one if I want them in my herd. I have self and agouti Rex with a lot of color variations around.

Also curious about the blues, although it seems they are more common?

Thanks!
 
chocolate is a self, brown, full color dense, full extension rabbit
aabbC_D__E_
As you may be able to see, the first 2 alleles are homozygous recessive
If you keep track of which of your rabbits produce chocolate,
you will know who carries those 2 genes and who can give it to you again

Blue also carries 2 homozygous recessives
aaB_C_ddE_
this time it is the self and dilute

you are more likely to get chocolate, or blue when breeding self to self.
you may also get black aaB_C_D_E_ and lilac aabbC_ddE_
 
We have a broken chocolate mini Rex doe and would like to buy a buck to breed with her. What should we choose to have a large variety of colors in the kits?
 
We have a broken chocolate mini Rex doe and would like to buy a buck to breed with her. What should we choose to have a large variety of colors in the kits?

The biggest challenge with choosing colors to breed with her would be not knowing what colors she carries. Do you know what her parents were or have a pedigree/info about other generations above her? Also helpful would be knowing what your plans are for the offspring (show, meat, pets, etc.). Depending on the colors in her lineage, she may or may not have much color variety to give.
 
If you want chocolate or blue, I would stay away from harlequin
A_B_C_D_ej_

since chocolate is
aabbC_D_E_

and blue is
aaB_C_ddE_

REW
____cc____
could carry ANYTHING on those abde genes
you won't know unless you know the genetic background

Personally, I like to use REW to check for a (hidden) chinchilla gene
 
I’m absolutely new to all this genetic stuff, so I apologize for the questions; but I bred a broken chocolate to a blue and got a litter of 7 kits. Four solid black and 3 broken black. I don’t have pedigree info on broken chocolate, but I do on the blue. His parents were a blue tort and a broken blue, and grandparents were either solid blue or blue tort… so I’m assuming the black came from the broken chocolate side, but where/how if that makes sense?
 
I’m absolutely new to all this genetic stuff, so I apologize for the questions; but I bred a broken chocolate to a blue and got a litter of 7 kits. Four solid black and 3 broken black. I don’t have pedigree info on broken chocolate, but I do on the blue. His parents were a blue tort and a broken blue, and grandparents were either solid blue or blue tort… so I’m assuming the black came from the broken chocolate side, but where/how if that makes sense?
Both chocolate and blue are produced by recessive genes, but different ones. To get chocolates, both parents must be or carry the gene for chocolate <b>. Same with blue (which is basically dilute black): to get blue, both parents must be or carry the gene for dilute <d>. (So the black came from the blue sire.)

The gene for broken <En> is dominant so if you breed a broken (of any color) with a solid, you'll get, on average, 50% broken colored rabbits; however this will not affect the color of the rabbit, just the pattern.

A series is agouti <A_>, tan <at_> or self <aa>. Black, chocolate, blue and lilac are selfs so you know they're <aa>
B series is black <B_> or chocolate <bb>
C series is full color <C_> (four other C-series alleles restrict the amount and type of melanin (pigment) produced, so the increasingly recessive <cchd> <cchl> <ch> and <c> progressively limit first yellow pigments and eventually all pigment)
D series is dense <D_> or dilute <dd>
E series is extension and the most recessive is non-extension <ee> which makes torts, reds/oranges, and ermines. There are at least 5 alleles in this series and there are partial dominance issues among them so it can get complicated.
En series is broken <Enen>, solid <enen> and "charlie <EnEn>

The understrike lines after dominant alleles, as in <B_> for black, indicates that there are other, more recessive alleles that my be "hiding" behind the dominant allele, but you're not sure. When it comes to completely recessive genes like chocolate <bb> or dilute <dd> there are no lower alleles that can hide, so you know the rabbit is homozygous for that allele.

So if you breed a chocolate (or broken chocolate) which is by definition <aabbC_D_E_> with a blue which by definition is <aaB_C_ddE_>, and you get all blacks (and/or broken blacks) you can guess that:

the chocolate is homozygous for non-dilute <DD> therefore <aabbC_DDE_>
and
the blue is homozygous for black <BB>, therefore <aaBBC_ddEe> You know your buck is <Ee> because he's full-color <E> but his parent was tort <ee>, so he necessarily got one copy of <e>.

Since you got all full-color kits in the blue x broken chocolate litter, you can guess that your doe is <EE> but to be certain of that would take more test breedings.

You also know that all the kits are black carrying chocolate <Bb> and dense color carrying dilute <Dd> because they get one allele from each parent. So, these babies will be capable of producing black, blue, chocolate and lilac (which is dilute chocolate), depending on what you breed them with.
 
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I bred a broken chocolate to a blue and got a litter of 7 kits. Four solid black and 3 broken black.
Aren't things like this fascinating, on the surface, it seems highly unlikely that you could cross a blue and a chocolate and get all black kits (some broken and some solid).? But, once you understand the underlying principles, it suddenly makes sense. Every rabbit has two copies of each gene, one donated by each parent. Each gene has two or more options to choose from. The 'boss', or dominant option, only needs one copy to strut its stuff and be seen. The more shy recessive option will require both copies to be the same recessive choice in order to have enough strength to be seen.

One of the rabbit color genes is coded 'B' for black. There are only two options on that gene--the 'boss', or dominant choice is black (which includes any of the black-based colors like blue, opal, or blue tort). The recessive choice is brown (which includes all of the chocolate-based colors like self chocolate, lilac, lynx and chocolate tort.)

Another gene is coded 'D' for Dense/Dilute. The dominant option is full dense color, which means that the full amount of pigment for that color is sent to the hairshaft. The recessive is dilute, which means only part of the pigment is manufactured, and the color is more pastel. With two recessive dilute genes (coded with a lower-case 'd'), black becomes blue, chocolate fades to lilac, chestnut agouti becomes opal, chocolate agouti lightens to lynx, orange agouti becomes fawn/cream (name depends on breed).

Your crossed a blue (dominant black, recessive dilute) with a chocolate (brown is recessive to black, and dominant dense color). It appears that both rabbits had two copies the same of each gene. Sometimes, when you have a dominant gene paired with a recessive, you can only see the dominant gene, and don't know about whether it is paired with another dominant or a recessive version, since it only takes one dominant copy for it to show itself. That's how you can sometimes end up with odd colors in a litter--there were other hidden recessives that combined. In your case, each kit got one gene from each parent.

That means that the blue can only donate a dilute gene, because it has two of them (coded dd). The chocolate can only donate a recessive brown, because it has two of them (coded bb). The blue is black + dilute. Black is dominant, so you know it has at least one dominant black gene (coded with a capital B to show it is dominant, recessive traits are coded with a lower case letter.) The chocolate is full dense color (not lilac), so you know it has at least one dominant dense gene (coded with a capital D). You don't know what the dominant genes are paired with, until you have kits. In this case, the chocolate donated dominant Dense color to EVERY kit, suggesting it is DD and has both genes with dense color. The blue donated dominant black, and EVERY kit shows it, which suggests it is BB and has both genes with black-based color.

The fun thing is, now every single kit will be Bb Dd, each carrying a recessive trait behind the dominant. Which means depending on how they combine, if you bred them together, you could get black, blue, chocolate or lilac kits. Broken is a separate gene, and it is dominant. Proper broken pattern requires one broken copy, and one solid recessive (two broken copies creates a 'Charlie', a mostly white rabbit with a few stray colored spots, only 10% or so color, and so not showable.) Your broken kits, since they were a cross of a dominant broken x recessive solid, will have the proper En en genetics (the code is 'En', short for English spotting, as in the English Spot breed.) Crossing these spotted kits to a solid will give you a 50/50 chance of more brokens.

Do remember that genetics is a game of chance. When we say you have a 50/50 chance, that's the odds over a large number of births. In reality, Lady Luck can throw whatever she wants. Your rabbits could both have hidden recessives, and it could just be that Lady Luck picked all the dominant traits this time. Which is why it is sometimes said it takes at least three litters to be reasonably sure of what the litter is telling you about the genetics of the parents. Some litters are all girls, or all boys, even though the odds are closer to 50/50. After all, people sometimes actually hit the jackpot, have a run at the gaming table winning multiple times in a row, or have persistent good or bad luck. That's part of the fun, trying to figure out the odds vs. what you really get, it's often such a surprise.
 

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