checking out websights

[paintrider89]

So I decided to check out some breeders local to me, thinking about possibly getting a pedigreed pair of red or Mr possible. Anyhow, as I was checking out some breeders websights, I saw some very intresting things, one was a girl (about 14 by my best guess). Then I came to the next site, where I started reading their terms and conditions. Well as I have likely said before, I am a horse person just getting into the rabbit thing...but some of these conditions have me baffled. Mostly when I was reading through their stud servce conditions, and some of it just seems a little overboard for me? I'm not trying to dog on these guys, and in the rabbit world it may he perfectly normal? I don't know, I plan on checking out some other sites as well, just browsing, bit here are some of the statements.

Does must pass final inspection by us to be bred.  Does must have a pedigree to be bred, unless you are willing to pay a 25.00 dishonor fee, and an additional 10.00 will be required to get the buck's pedigree if you pay a dishonor fee. 

Well in horses if your mare is grade or not registered the stud fee is normally half of what it would be for a papered mare, so to have to pay more to breed a mutt seems slightly strange, and as I'm not looking to take them my does its all good.

We also reserve the right to refuse to breed a doe for any reason.
These are some rights our bucks reserve:
If a buck will not mount your doe (we haven't had this happen as of yet) you may choose a buck of equal or lesser value to breed to.  If a second buck will not mount your doe, you may choose a buck of equal or lesser value in comparison to the first buck you chose.  If a third buck refuses your doe, we will no longer attempt to breed that doe.  There are NO refunds offered.

Right..horses again, but if my mare doesn't get bred, you breed another mare for me, or returns my stud fee. Maybe not a booking fee, but the stud fee itself is deffinatly returned. LFG. Live foal garenteed. I don't think I have ever met a breeder that doesn't offer this with their boys.

If your doe does not take we will rebreed her for free up until her proposed (failed) due date.  After that date a rebreed will cost 50% the original price.  If a doe misses and is rebred three times we will no longer offer a discount breeding for that doe.

Again with LFG. Iean I understand kits die, bit if my doe never gets bred (esp. If it's a proven doe) I will not be paying you again.

ALL kits born from a breeding to an ..........(edit out) Rabbitry owned buck MUST be given the "edit out" prefix.  If you do not want our prefix on the kits, you must pay a 10.00 naming fee. 

Umm, born on my property, stud fee I paid for, my prefix in front of their names.

Again, I don't want to say these guys are all wrong, that just seemed so crazy. I also edited out name for respect of the rabbitry.

 

[ottersatin]

Well paintrider89,
Quit a bit of what you have posted from the Websites you have read
makes sense to me. What you have to realize is: Everybody makes their
own rules as to how they will carry out their business.
I do not agree with everything that others choose to do, but that is "None of my Business."
Before you make any decision as to the path you will take, you must decide
what you feel is in YOUR best interest.
I happen to be not as stringent when it comes to "Rules of Breeding.
I feel that one should give credit to the breeder, but if a Rabbit/Kit
is born in your Barn it is your right to tittle it as you see fit.
Having stated this, you may not want to create friction between you
and the original breeder as this may hamper future purchases from them.
I suggest that you get to know those who you are dealing with in a
more personal matter than simply posting an email.
Once you go to the Rabbitry with all intentions of purchasing
you may find that the person is not as strictly stuck to the
written rule as you had thought.
It is very hard to understand things when all you see is the written word,
you can tell a lot about a person when speaking eye to eye.
Don't be so judgmental of statements on a website,
you don't know what those breeders have gone through in the past
when dealing with purchasers!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[paintrider89]

Honestly I don't menn to judge. And Im sure these guys had their reason, that's also why I did not post name or website out of respect, o just find the breeding rules on a $100 animal more strict than many $10,000 animals I have known for stud. I also understand this is a different species and different people, but I expected the majority of the ranot community was relaxed like everyone seems to be around here.

 

[Prisma]

IF I would even allow breedings to outside does, I'd probably be worse on "rules" for breeding them. If you have paid for your stock, been showing any thing at all, and have any wins/good comments that in itself has to be taken into account. Bio hazard of the doe and the possibility of loosing the buck as well, just because it looks healthy doesn't mean it is deal. There is no live guarantee, the difference between body type/condition of even a "good and ready doe" and period with a horse-rabbit is VERY different (have both) and the percentage of death-live birth for rabbits including not only the kids BUT the doe as well over all is much more higher rate. I can understand not returning the entire fee, but not keeping all of it. They've put their buck at risk, he's tried, but it didn't work because the doe didn't cooperate...that is not the buck's problem nor the owner of the buck's problem. I don't know of any one who is going to take the doe to the vet before hand or have a in depth health record for the buck's owner to look at before they take the doe to the buck as well as updates with vets after the breeding.

It is also a way to have the option available, but have priced to where most fly-byers won't want to do it. If the person with the buck in question is trying to only breed better pedigreed stock, that's an option to do it and still get their "name" out there. It may not be worth it to you or to most others, but some one may want it....not that I'd do that myself either but I can understand. Names on pedigrees is like a big calling card, its how most find breeders to buy from as well as getting credit etc., personally unless I pick what sells/stays/etc. I do not want my name attached to it as you have no idea what that person is picking really and that could be bad as well as good for you in the long run. I have a strict no breeding to outside does set as said before, if you want some thing from my buck buy a kid when/if it is available or go to that buck's original breeder if it is not one of my own. The easiest thing to do is to read and if you don't agree simply don't deal with them, not every one does the same thing and even though you didn't mention any names most won't take it well...most are if you don't like my policy or the way I do things, go elsewhere attitude and I can't say I really blame them with the years and amount of money have invested in their rabbits.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I would never put one of my bucks at risk by doing an outside breeding at my barn. As stated, rabbits can appear healthy, but be carriers of pathogens that your own rabbitry has had no exposure to.

It is safer for all involved to buy the buck, quarantine for a month, and then use for breeding.

My stance on rabbitry names on a pedigree is that if you own both rabbits, your name goes on the pedigree. If you buy a bred doe from a breeder and had no say in who she was bred to and therefore no intellectual involvement, the breeder's prefix should be put on the litter. If you made the decision of which outside buck to use, your name should go on the pedigrees.

However, I agree that the person offering the service gets to set their own rules.

 

[paintrider89]

IF I would even allow breedings to outside does, I'd probably be worse on "rules" for breeding them. If you have paid for your stock, been showing any thing at all, and have any wins/good comments that in itself has to be taken into account. Bio hazard of the doe and the possibility of loosing the buck as well, just because it looks healthy doesn't mean it is deal. There is no live guarantee, the difference between body type/condition of even a "good and ready doe" and period with a horse-rabbit is VERY different (have both) and the percentage of death-live birth for rabbits including not only the kids BUT the doe as well over all is much more higher rate. I can understand not returning the entire fee, but not keeping all of it. They've put their buck at risk, he's tried, but it didn't work because the doe didn't cooperate...that is not the buck's problem nor the owner of the buck's problem. I don't know of any one who is going to take the doe to the vet before hand or have a in depth health record for the buck's owner to look at before they take the doe to the buck as well as updates with vets after the breeding.

It is also a way to have the option available, but have priced to where most fly-byers won't want to do it. If the person with the buck in question is trying to only breed better pedigreed stock, that's an option to do it and still get their "name" out there. It may not be worth it to you or to most others, but some one may want it....not that I'd do that myself either but I can understand. Names on pedigrees is like a big calling card, its how most find breeders to buy from as well as getting credit etc., personally unless I pick what sells/stays/etc. I do not want my name attached to it as you have no idea what that person is picking really and that could be bad as well as good for you in the long run. I have a strict no breeding to outside does set as said before, if you want some thing from my buck buy a kid when/if it is available or go to that buck's original breeder if it is not one of my own. The easiest thing to do is to read and if you don't agree simply don't deal with them, not every one does the same thing and even though you didn't mention any names most won't take it well...most are if you don't like my policy or the way I do things, go elsewhere attitude and I can't say I really blame them with the years and amount of money have invested in their rabbits.

So it is just rabbits are different than horses. I understand that, if those are pretty common rules or terms I can understand them. Just a very different world. However the concept is the same, horses are raised and bred, but even the largest stud farms don't require their prefixes to be on their foals . As I don't plan on dealing with other rabbit breeders as far as anything like this I am not extreamly concerned about how they run things, however the diffence in species and the people who deal in them is very intresting to me. But money makes the word go round, and paying for breedings and possible getting nothing out of it is a big red flag in my life. I wouldnt risk breeding to someone with these rules, to much money to be lost if I have a doe who can't produce, they should at least offer to breed to another doe before taking your money and making you pay again...but to each their own.

 

[WallTenter]

Those do not sound like common rules at all. Few breeders offer outside stud service and those that do usually offer at least one re-breed, and are much more relaxed about the whole affair (though I do agree with the health inspections). It sounds like they're regulating themselves out of business, if that's what they are after.

What bollocks. Have to name the rabbit after that farm's name for using the buck?! Even if I buy a rabbit that was bred and owned by XYZ farm and they've already shown it five times and it has all its legs I can still go to a registrar and register it with any name on that pedigree that I want, including "XYZ Barn Sucks". All of the rabbits born here have "Hardway ___ " as their name (even if it's just "Hardway B3A09" (ear tattoo)). I might have used a buck that came from "Amazonian Pride Hooplah" farm and that buck's name is on there "APH Miracle Buck" but the actual kit born has my prefix, and someone can change it to their prefix if they buy it and they want to type up a new pedigree. As long as the ear number doesn't change and all the pedigree information matches up it doesn't matter what the rabbits name is.

What a crock.

 

[trinityoaks]

To be honest, from what I've seen, VERY few rabbit breeders will do any sort of stud service at all, unless it's a breeding between friends. I would say that most breeders would consider breeding their rabbit (male or female) to someone else's rabbit as a HUGE biosecurity risk, and the very few who will do it have EXTREMELY picky rules about it. I'm guessing that it has to do with the idea that rabbits are much more fragile animals than, say, horses, cattle, or goats, or even dogs.

FWIW, though, if I were wanting stud service for my doe, NO WAY would I agree to the terms that breeder has set up, especially naming rights.

 

[paintrider89]

Those do not sound like common rules at all. Few breeders offer outside stud service and those that do usually offer at least one re-breed, and are much more relaxed about the whole affair (though I do agree with the health inspections). It sounds like they're regulating themselves out of business, if that's what they are after.

What bollocks. Have to name the rabbit after that farm's name for using the buck?! Even if I buy a rabbit that was bred and owned by XYZ farm and they've already shown it five times and it has all its legs I can still go to a registrar and register it with any name on that pedigree that I want, including "XYZ Barn Sucks". All of the rabbits born here have "Hardway ___ " as their name (even if it's just "Hardway B3A09" (ear tattoo)). I might have used a buck that came from "Amazonian Pride Hooplah" farm and that buck's name is on there "APH Miracle Buck" but the actual kit born has my prefix, and someone can change it to their prefix if they buy it and they want to type up a new pedigree. As long as the ear number doesn't change and all the pedigree information matches up it doesn't matter what the rabbits name is.

What a crock.

I absolutely agree withbhealth inspections, on all animals before they are taken anywhere to be bred, current vaccinces ans even certificate of health from a vet. My issue was the name thing, and the fact that you are out money ($100 stud fee on somebofbtheir bucks) what ifs just the wrong time of year? If it's to hot or cold and that doe simply won't breed, you can't bring in another doe, without paying the whole stud fee again, well then I am out $200 for babies I will hopefully get, and that may or maynot live? I don't understand.

 

[WallTenter]

To be honest, from what I've seen, VERY few rabbit breeders will do any sort of stud service at all, unless it's a breeding between friends.

Agree 100%, that's why when it does happen there are not all these rules and subrules - if you trust a person enough to expose your prize buck to their doe, you trust them with just about anything ;D

 

[ladysown]

Not knowing the Rabbitry
1. They can't force you to name a rabbit anything. ...so ignore that......but if they want a kit back let them name it with their prefix.
2. Generally it is good form if the person who chooses the breeding gets the prefix.

3. My guess she gets a bunch of fly by folks, figures this is a way to make some money and to discourage the rest. Some of it seems like theft..... no free rebreed?

I wouldn't deal with since I don't know what her rabbits have been exposed to.

 

[Zab]

Very interesting.

I know a few that offer stud services, especially people who show jumps with their rabbits, but a few meat breeders as well. No idea what rules they set up but I havn
't seen any in the ads I've read at least. Just a price.

Then again.. quarantine are generally less strict here as well. And the show bunnies are usually vaccinated and such for the most common disease (plus they meet a whole bunch of rabbits from different places all the time). I also lately read an article that stated the precense of P. anti-bodies in sweden was 6% f the tested rabbit population, while varying between 60-93% in other countries, implying we just don't have a whole lot of exposed rabbits.. maybe that's why people here are more of a ''if it looks healthy it probably is'' mentality?

I also found the rules very strange, but reading your answers and thinking about it, most of it makes sense.

 

[Dood]

even the largest stud farms don't require their prefixes to be on their foals

remember that the paper trails for horses is A LOT more reliable than rabbits, plus you have DNA testing available for paternity, microchips, tattoos, well organized registries etc...

I won't stud out my bucks for bio security reasons but i also see no reason for it as keeping a rabbit buck is not nearly as difficult as looking after a stallion. If someone likes my stock, they can buy a male kit. It is not feasible, and would also be a very BAAADD idea, for every one who wants to breed their mare to also keep a suitable stallion on their premises

Their rabbits, their rules and if they make money doing it this way then kudo's to them.

 

[paintrider89]

even the largest stud farms don't require their prefixes to be on their foals

remember that the paper trails for horses is A LOT more reliable than rabbits, plus you have DNA testing available for paternity, microchips, tattoos, well organized registries etc...

I won't stud out my bucks for bio security reasons but i also see no reason for it as keeping a rabbit buck is not nearly as difficult as looking after a stallion. If someone likes my stock, they can buy a male kit. It is not feasible, and would also be a very BAAADD idea, for every one who wants to breed their mare to also keep a suitable stallion on their premises

Their rabbits, their rules and if they make money doing it this way then kudo's to them.

Lol. I know a buck bun is much more people ok than a stallion. But some people withstallions breed mares out, of ccourse in horses you don't want to line bred as Mich. I do use my friends bucks, because we just have mixed pet/meat rabbits. If I were to get into purebreds I would get my own buck, because I can do any of my own breeding on my time. I agree they can have any rules they want, I just wanted to share with everyone.

 

[Peach]

I've seen a lot of co-op breedings go sour....

Sometimes the one with the doe claims the babies are "dead" and they are actually doing quite well and being used for breeding and showing.

I paid a lot of money for my herd bucks, but I will not breed to outside does (Like everyone else, health). I've run across a lot of people that just want the genetics but don't actually want to pay up to a quality herd buck...then they start breeding to mediocre "stud" bucks and someones feelings get hurt because the babies aren't all that they thought they would crack up to be.

They have probably also skimped on buying their original stock and think that the stud will make everything pedigree worthy.

If you purchase a quality doe from them bred that's one thing, but studding rabbits...eh

 

[tailwagging]

then they start breeding to mediocre "stud" bucks and someones feelings get hurt because the babies aren't all that they thought they would crack up to be.

many people have what I call the "Disney mindset" they think that if they love it enough is will miraculously become a champion, or win the race or.......what ever.... and are disappointed when it doesn't happen.

 

[Miss M]

I also would not be willing to do outside breeding like this.

Some of these rules are bizarre, though. I mean... sure, your rabbitry, your rules, whatever... and maybe they're just trying to prevent people from wanting to breed to their bucks... but why not just say "we don't do outside breedings"?

If you're going to do them, then sure, you need to check the health of the doe. That makes sense. But a "dishonor fee" for breeding a non-pedigreed doe to their buck? :shock:

No refunds if there was no breeding? Not even a partial refund, allowing for the fact that the breeder did give up some of their time to stud out their bucks unsuccessfully?

Offering to rebreed for free up to the "proposed (failed) due date"? What? You don't rebreed a doe until she is past her due date, because you don't know for sure that she didn't take until she is at least several days overdue. But if you wait until after the due date, you've got to pay a rebreed fee of 50% of the original fee? I don't think so.

And wanting your prefix on kits born to someone else's doe on someone else's property? You have no idea what those kits are like... you might have culled every one of them... why would you want your prefix on them?

Total weirdness to me, but then again, I wouldn't do it in the first place. :?

 

[LauraNJ]

I think those rules sound like a breeder making a list of demands that are outrageous enough that it discourages others from asking about stud service.

 

[paintrider89]

I think those rules sound like a breeder making a list of demands that are outrageous enough that it discourages others from asking about stud service.

Right. So why offer them for stud, especially on a websight?

 

[LauraNJ]

Probably because she got annoyed at people asking.