Charlies versus Broken Vienna marked

[Dood]

Hey everyone.

I think we should come up with a new name for the rabbits that look like charlies but actually only have one broken gene and one vienna gene.

We already use the term 'false charlie' for brokens with alot of white but only one broken gene, so I propose 'false vienna charlie' or do you think that is too much of a mouthfull?

Please post your suggestions.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Maybe go literal and call it Broken Vienna? Or Broken Vienna Marked????

 

[Dood]

The problem is not all broken vienna's look like charlies, only some!

Vienna is a very weird gene!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

VM false charlie?

 

[ladysown]

i like that MSD...makes sense to me.

You could just call it....that odd white carrier rabbit.

 

[Disney]

Love the idea Dood!
But does this only apply to one variation of the "vienna + broken" mix who looks like a false charlie?
Or can we use this term for every variation that genetically is broken + vienna, who doesn't necessarily have to look like a charlie?

- a normal broken patterned with or without blue eyes, little vienna influence.
- a false charlie with or without blue eyes, average vienna influence.
- a hotot with blue eyes, has most likely blue eyes due the excessive amount of white caused by vienna.

They are genetically the same and can show up in different varieties within the same litter, depending on the amount of vienna white is added to the broken white.

1. normal broken patterned, has a small blue snip in his eyes, but i had these with full blue eyes too

Like this doe, she got me into this vienna mess, rip Disney.
I got all varieties of the broken + vienna out of her.

2. False charlie, she is sister to the buck from the first pic who had more color than her.
Mom is a bew hiding opal, dad is rew hiding broken blue steel.

3. The hotot variety with blue eyes, they are entirely white and left with only colored eye bands and blue eyes.

This kit is the son of the false charlie doe above.
Mom is broken opal vienna marked, dad is black tort vm.
Kit is even more whiter than her mom and beyond false charlie, so now.. false hotot?

Black band on left eye

Same kit, right eye is blank

He will look like this when he's older

And his sister, orange vienna hotot? :lol:

It's pretty late so i can't think right now, but i will brainstorm first thing when i wake up and let you know

 

[Wyldrose]

Another false hotot charlie???
This is Nova, she was from a dwarf hotot bred to a self black ND

Lost her last spring, we had a huge thunderstorm, it boomed so loud I think she had a heart attack?<br /><br />__________ Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:42 pm __________<br /><br />Nova's 2 kits, she snuck out and had a date with my smoke pearl holland lop

So She gave me more hotot false charlies.

 

[Disney]

@Wyldrose

A true hotot is actually the result of a dutch + broken combination, like your Nova.
And they do get mismarked rabbits who have more color than they intented with the hotot.
So it's a guess what you'll get. And i think they focus more modifiers with parents that have the right markings, to breed out the faults like Nova would be.

The dutch and vienna gene are similar, the only difference is the blue eyes (so far that i know)
The marking pattern works in the same way with both genes.
So a vienna + broken is nearly the same as a dutch + broken, except for the blue eyes.
Your rabbit could easily be mistaked for a vienna marked, when he is a broken dutch.

ontopic:
I think broken vienna sounds logical for these variations.
In wyldrose's case, i would call them broken dutch.

 

[Secuono]

Clockwork Orange bun!

 

[Dood]

Dutch is recessive (although not a perfect one) so a true Hotot bred to a solid rabbit will give solids and brokens who will carry a hidden Dutch gene.

Vienna and broken are dominant so a false Hotot bred to a solid would give pretty much anything - solids, vienna marked, broken, broken viennas that don't look like charlies and broken viennas that do look like charlies or Hotots.

I am pretty sure Nova is a false Hotot since she had hotot looking kits sired by a smoke pearl. Her dam was also likely a false Hotot since she had Nova when bred to a solid black. Unless both these bucks secretly carried Dutch they shouldn't have produced true Hotot kits.

The majority of people don't understand genetics so when a bunny pops out that looks like a Hotot that's what that call it, regardless if it came from a vienna and a broken mating.

I have suspected for several years that the so called Hotots being sold in my area were infact something else and after joining Rabbit Talk and see them produced from broken Vienna matings I am certain this is what they truly are since Vienna is so common around here while Dutch are very rare and true Hotots even rarer

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

The majority of people don't understand genetics so when a bunny pops out that looks like a Hotot that's what that call it, regardless if it came from a vienna and a broken mating.

I've seen similar misconceptions around here, too...except for other breeds. One gal got a ruby-eyed white from a litter of mutts and tried to sell it as a pure NZ. Someone else claimed they are the only rabbits who have red eyes and white fur, I was like "OMG YOU MEAN MY REW MINI REX BUCK IS ACTUALLY A TEENY TINY REX-FURRED NZ??????" Then I laughed.

I have suspected for several years that the so called Hotots being sold in my area were intact something else and after joining Rabbit Talk and see them produced from broken Vienna matings I am certain this is what they truly are since Vienna is so common around here while Dutch are very rare and true Hotots even rarer

Probably. Lots of people will tack a name or breed onto an animal if they think it'll rack in more $$$$$$. Saying they have a fancy Dwarf Hotot for sale sounds better than Cute Mutt Breed Bunny.

 

[DawnUnicorn]

Hello all, Thought you might be interested in seeing my vienna/broken marked false charlie doe Luna,

From butterfly marked mini lop male and slight tip of nose vienna marked female lionhead

What i find weird is her hotot white ears and black eye rings but at the same time broken marked back

http://www.facebook.com/dawnholliday/me ... 254&type=3
Pics arent working but heres a link ti my fb album for the buns

 

[aussiegirl]

The majority of people don't understand genetics so when a bunny pops out that looks like a Hotot that's what that call it, regardless if it came from a vienna and a broken mating.

I've seen similar misconceptions around here, too...except for other breeds. One gal got a ruby-eyed white from a litter of mutts and tried to sell it as a pure NZ. Someone else claimed they are the only rabbits who have red eyes and white fur, I was like "OMG YOU MEAN MY REW MINI REX BUCK IS ACTUALLY A TEENY TINY REX-FURRED NZ??????" Then I laughed.

I have suspected for several years that the so called Hotots being sold in my area were intact something else and after joining Rabbit Talk and see them produced from broken Vienna matings I am certain this is what they truly are since Vienna is so common around here while Dutch are very rare and true Hotots even rarer

Probably. Lots of people will tack a name or breed onto an animal if they think it'll rack in more $$$$$$. Saying they have a fancy Dwarf Hotot for sale sounds better than Cute Mutt Breed Bunny.

That is happening a lot here in Australia too, people selling Vienna marked rabbits as purebred (mostly New Zealands, Flemish giants & British Giants) I see a fair few on Gumtree. I don't think a lot of the people advertising their rabbits in Australia know what the Vienna gene is and assume they are purebred.

Even though I breed meat rabbits, I do breed for the best quality & try to keep to the Breed standards. I do however have several selectively bred crossbreeds but Strict record keeping is a must.

 

[Susie570]

Interesting old thread.

Of course, I ended up with several 'false charlies' from the Broken Chin X Harlequin Dutch litter I had.

I like 'lightly marked broken' or.. hmmm... it would be using the name of one of my rabbits, but 'Sprinkled' ?

 

[alforddm]

Those look very similar to the broken chin does I'm keeping from White. They are turning into really nice big does and one is super sweet. I've got my fingers crossed they never snott on me.