Can a himi hide steel?

[MamaMandy]

Ok, so I've been trying to figure out how this happened for over a year now. I bred my black himi doe to my broken opal buck ( when I first bought him I thought he was blue tort, had I known he was agouti I wouldn't have bred those two! )

My buck, I now know, is A aT B_ C_ dd Ee. When bred to the himi, they had a blue otter, and what appeared to be a self black. I know this is not possible, so I've always wondered what happened. Could the himi be carrying steel? If so, how would it manifest itself? I've bred her multiple times to a broken smoke and a sable point, and gotten all normally colored shadeds. I recently bred her to her son, a blue himi and got 2 normal himis. If she carried it wouldn't I be seeing some sign of it in her other litters? I'm thoroughly stumped!

 

[Dood]

Yes, Himilayan can hide steel.

Steel is only visable when paired with the agouti gene so any selfs based (smoke, sable, black) will not have any visual effects and will look normal.

If the himilayan had a sable point then he must also carry non-extension.

 

[MamaMandy]

So, that would make sense as to why I've only had weird colors pop up when I bred her to an agouti. I've actually bred the himi to a sable point 2 or 3 times and gotten no sable points, so I'm thinking she does not carry non-extension. Her pedigree is all himis, except for one or two REWs. I bet that's where it came from. Are there any issues I should be aware of with breeding her offspring? Since they're all shadeds and should only be bred to shadeds, will I be OK?

 

[akane]

A himi with nonextension has messed up markings. The tips fade. This is Rhi
http://rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entry/show.html?id=1041 . I have his sable point son.

As long as you only breed self you will not see steel. You can cross in full color rabbits that are self without issue as well as the sable and himi. REW may produce steels if the rabbit turns out to not be a self under the rew coat. It hides every color so you would have to look at the parents if they aren't rew and the offspring you get to figure out what is under the white.

 

[MamaMandy]

I'm not on my usual laptop so I can't post any pics. Her markings look fine. They faded in the heat last summer and never came back in as nice as when I first bought her. She was 18 months old then though, so it's not like she was a baby. I'm starting to think she HAS to be hiding steel. There is just no other explanation for that first litter. Good to know it won't affect my shaded program though! I was getting worried.<br /><br />__________ Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:40 pm __________<br /><br />Just had a thought...what if I line breed my himi to her son and he happened to inherit her steel gene? What would I look for to know?

 

[akane]

If he's not an agouti there is nothing to see. If he's agouti then some of the offspring can be steel.

 

[MamaMandy]

No, he's himi as well. Just trying to figure out if there will be any negative repercussions from her steel gene. Thanks!

 

[Dood]

Only if you breed him or his steel carrying offspring to agouti or harlequin (Esej often look like self varieties)

 

[MamaMandy]

Ok great! So I'm trying to nail down her genotype... aa B_ ch ch Dd E and then it would be Es or es?

Thanks so much for all of your help! This has been bugging me for almost 2 years! LOL

 

[Dood]

As steel is the most dominant on the E-locus it would be a "Es E"

 

[MamaMandy]

Even though she's not showing any signs of having it? I think I see what you're saying though...

 

[Dood]

Remember, it only effects agouti and harlequin.

Maybe think of it like a broken REW the gene is there, you just can't see it.

 

[MamaMandy]

That helps! Thanks! So good to know.