Cali Temperaments... Bunnies Gone Wild?!

[TF3]

I have seen reference to Californians having nasty temperaments... My pair were SO forward and sweet when we got them a couple of weeks ago (they were much friendlier than the NZs at the same place) I handle them daily and they have been spending lots of time outdoors (penned in large x-pen). But they are not nice bunnies now, at about 11/12 weeks of age :shock:

They fight me and scratch, resisting any handling.
My daughter is now afraid to handle them (and the buck has scratched me terribly).

Whereas the Holland lops-- same age, got them same day, are become progressively easier to handle. And my adult Flemish who were never handled as kits, are sweethearts. So I see a major behaviour difference.

Is this just 'par for the course' in bunnies bred for meat/early processing? Adult temperament is sort of irrelevant? My plan is to breed this pair but they are becoming very unpleasant to deal with and I don't want generations like this! .

Any suggestions for sweetening them up?!
Freeze 'em?!

 

[Susie570]

Could it be that they just haven't been handled for so long? :x

 

[TF3]

It is my Flemish who were never handled until adulthood, and they are easy.
It is my baby Calis who I have handled for the last few weeks, and who were easy to handle a few weeks ago but terrible now. Little brats!

 

[alforddm]

It sounds like it may be puberty. They may or may not settle down after the hormones normalize. I think temperament is something that often gets ignored in meat rabbits. For some, I'm sure it makes them easier to dispatch if they are nasty.

 

[Susie570]

I'll tempered rabbits would certainly be easier for me to dispatch, but I wouldn't enjoy raising them as much either.

 

[DBA]

My cals have never been aggressive at all. They don't like to be picked up, they always flinch when I pet them, but none have ever bitten, nipped, or scratched me.
That said, when the does first have babies, they have each growled at me, so I left them alone for a couple of days, then all was fine.

 

[Zass]

When you do handle them, hold them securely.
Make sure scratching or struggling NEVER EVER gets them dropped or put down. That would just reinforce the behavior. Instead, set them down only when they are calm and still.

Some people tolerate a bad attitude. Some do not.

I personally find aggressive rabbits much less fun to raise.

Meaner rabbits do not have better mothering instincts as some like to insist.
I know because I have had plenty of very passive, even tempered rabbits who were great mothers. Actually, my sweetest rabbits have mostly been the best for me.

Being sweet tempered does not make them better mothers either (but it may be connected to nursing longer.)

It's just that the two traits (mothering and temper) are not linked.

Fail at behaving like a domestic animal here, and you end up stew (or maybe tacos.)

 

[ladysown]

give them some time, they may settle down as adults.

 

[Miss M]

Some lines have been culled for temperament, and some have not. It's possible that they will come out the other side of puberty and settle back down, and it's possible they will not.

It isn't that they are Cali rabbits bred for meat, it's whether or not temperament is one of the things the line was culled for. One rabbitry will have super-sweet Calis, another will have knife-wielding maniac Calis.

 

[TF3]

Thanks!
Let's hope it is just puberty -- they were so sweet!
And I'll be counting the knives for the next little while LOL
Teenagers are the worst!

I'll work on holding and rewarding (by releasing) for good behaviour
And start tempting them with goodies for being handled, hands in pen etc.
I don't need them to love being handled, but I do need them to tolerate it.

 

[PSFAngoras]

My mother in law has a pair of Cali's, the doe is by no means aggressive, even with her first litter now, although she is shy and doesn't like being held. The buck is a snuggler and a half. He still doesn't appreciate being held, but he runs to the door for pets and stares you down if you don't pet him.

 

[grumpy]

"""Somewhere""" in the archives, I've got a thread about a strain of Cals
I drove a great distance to get because of their meat-producing qualities.
What--a--waste--of--time-- :evil: I bought a dozen young does and one
young buck. The buck expired within a fortnight. It looked like his neck
was broken. (Cage-hysteria?)

Those doe's, when they matured, were BAT-CRAP crazy. :x :x
Two broke their necks when put into larger brood pens.
Four never made it past their first litter.....cause they didn't have one.
The other six WERE NUTS but "did" produce consistently. Once they
finished their careers in the brood pens......they had a one-way ticket
on the Snake-Train.

NOT.........ONE........DROP.......of their blood remains in the rabbitry.
The looniest rabbits I've ever encountered.

Grumpy.

 

[Susie570]

Wow... I didn't realize rabbits could get that crazy. :x
I've seen videos of aggressive ones, but breaking their own necks just by flinging themselves around the cages??? Yikes! :shock:

 

[LopLover]

I've seen that happen before with show line Cals. Put some in a pen and they never touch the cage floor cause they are too busy running around the sides of the cages. I like our old lines. Much more calm even if the does are a bitter bunch.

 

[Zass]

Yeah...one of the show line SF does was kind of like what Grumpy describes. The one with two GC ancestors on her pedigree injured herself repeatedly flinging herself around the cage at full speed when I would approach to say...fill her water bottle.

I have never for a second regretted euthanizing that crazy animal.

And I've also discovered that people who have never had that kind of crazy in their rabbitry have a hard time believing that a rabbit can just be that bad genetically.
It feels like having a caged wild rabbit. I think...they must come from rabbitrys that have much smaller cages, and thus less room to harm themselves??

For the record, animals that are overly hormonal at puberty never get bred here, since my experience has been that puberty behavior is a very solid indicator as to what to expect from them anytime their hormones spike.

 

[Susie570]

:shock: I had no idea that rabbits could be that crazy...

 

[TF3]

Excellent point about the hormonal spikes, Zass, it was true for me (personally!) LOL

Thanks for sharing your experiences, folks!!

 

[Zass]

Excellent point about the hormonal spikes, Zass, it was true for me (personally!) LOL

Yeah, heh, me too.

Sometimes I feel bad culling the rabbits for something that I know from experience is beyond their ability to control.

But...at the same time, I realize that what I'm doing is selecting for traits that will allow them, and their human caretakers to be happier, and do I believe such a relationship is beneficial to both species in the long run.

I mean...think about all the advantages our domestic rabbits have over their wild counterparts? Increased range, increased numbers, more genetic diversity. Protection from predators and guaranteed food for them and their offspring. Medical care, and parasite control.
Most kits still do not get to survive to breeding age, but so it is with wild rabbits as well, and actually a high mortality rate is INTENDED to allow for rapid adaptation, and plenty do get to survive and reproduce.

One of the adaptations I demand is no hormonal spikes that trigger irrational aggression, in order to allow them to be safer for humans (adults and children) to handle. Necessary to be able to provide proper medical care.

You wouldn't believe how many people on here ask for help, and then tell us they cannot do whatever is instructed because they are afraid to handle their rabbit.

It always makes me really sad for the rabbit.

I also believe that animals who bite are at higher risk for neglect, abuse, or abandonment.

I have not noticed any decrease whatsoever in mothering ability, nest building behavior, or delayed puberty from selecting for animals who do not experience hormonal spikes that trigger irrational aggression.

So yeah, that's my line of reasoning.

 

[TF3]

It makes sense.
They produce more than the natural eco-system OR the domestic system could handle if every rabbit went to maturity...

I look at it this way... we are using them for our purposes (meat, pets, whatever) ~ so the rabbits we choose to keep and care for, as you describe, are 'owed' the good care in return for their work for us.
Personally (and I know not everyone feels the same, that's cool!), that includes an affection and respect for them, an ability to handle them so that their interactions with me (to serve my needs) are not a cause for fear and stress for them.

I culled the Cali doe, anyway, for her snot issues.
I am working with the buck, and he is doing much better now, in his own space and farther away from the other young bucks.
He is accepting handling and is always eager to greet me and get a pat when I come in.

 

[SatinsRule]

How many are does and how many are bucks?

It's my experience that bucks tend to be easier to handle, at least until they are used in the breeding program.

Does, on the other hand, tend to get very moody to the point of almost being territorial.

Just my experience.