Bunny has red bumps on upper lip.

[Carly1322]

Hello!

Well I adopted my bun Gary about 6 months ago. Recently (probably about two months ago) I noticed two a small bumps on his upper lip. The skin was much darker under it, but the bumps seemed to be healed. Just recently now the bumps have turned pink and does look quite sore. I feel like it is getting bigger as well. He is eating, drinking and doing all of his normal bunny duties.

I apologize if this is not posted in the right place!

I hope someone has some insight, I'll attach an image for your review.

Thank you in advance!

 

[squidpop]

One thing it could be is the beginnings of rabbit syphilis. Sometimes they get small lesions on nose and lips. If it is that, he will probably start getting sores around his genitals too.

Rabbits can get it through direct contact or in vitro from their mother. They have to get penicillin injections to get rid of it.

It might not be, so maybe others will have a different idea of what it is.

 

[MaggieJ]

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Carly! :hi:

I wouldn't say you posted in the wrong place, but I think you will get more replies in the Illnesses, Injuries and Parasites forum and I will move it there for you.

Squidpop is right that rabbit syphilis is a strong possibility, but if Gary is in a wire cage it is also possible that he is rubbing the spots against the wire.

Has he had any contact, direct or indirect, with other rabbits in the six months you have had him. Indirect contact would include someone handling or petting another rabbit and then Gary.

Check around his genitals for similar spots. If you find them, he will need antibiotics to cure him. Rabbit syphilis is fairly easy to treat and is not contagious to people.

I cannot advise as to which antibiotic or how much, but someone else may know. Many of us have enough experience treat our own rabbits for many ailments, rather than relying on a vet, but since Gary is a pet, you may want to consult a vet instead.

Keep him isolated from other rabbits to avoid spreading whatever it is. If you have other rabbits yourself, care for Gary last and then wash thoroughly and change your clothes. These are standard precautions that should be taken whenever there is an undiagnosed problem with a rabbit.

Good luck with him! I hope you get it sorted out. :clover:

 

[CDiana]

how is his teeth? I noticed a similar black bump on one of my bucks, I have 3 almost 3 month olds sharing a large cage right now. I got them 5 weeks ago. This morning I noticed a black bump on his lip. I thought may be last night he was sleeping next to one of his brothers butts and got pooped on and the poop dried as it stuck. so i took a wet washcloth to get it loosened enough to pull off. when i pulled it off i noticed bleeding. I checked his teeth. they are messed up. they get plenty of roughage. he is a decent weight and eats fine. so i am guessing genetic? he has good markings so I was hoping to use him as a breeding buck. but now I wont get to.

 

[Prisma]

Looks like RS, like others have suggested. You may not see any places around the genitals or you may end up with scabs around the genitals, more around the mouth, and even the eyes. Pen G (long lasting kind) @ 0.1 cc per pound is what I've used, note as with any other medication some rabbits may not tolerate it as well as others. Probiotics is suggested as it can cause GI upset, but I've never used any when I have given it for RS in the past. It will take one shot for 3 days straight at the correct dosage for your rabbit and then one shot for 3 more weeks (one shot PER week only) bare min. I have done it for 4 weeks instead of 3 though, want to be sure it is gone the first time and not have to go another round as the more you have to medicate the more likely it will not work and there has been some on FB boards complaining that RS aka vent disease is becoming resistant to Pen G. Plus I had one case of an auction rabbit that had to have 6 weeks worth of treatment (which is what Barbi Brown and some others suggest any way) as the first 4 weeks didn't take care of it (pity buy went on for pet). The shot is given at the nap of the neck (be careful not to hit the bone or muscle, lift up on the skin like you would scruff to get a better open area to give the shot in, and you want to try to not give the shot in the exact same place each time) and you may need help. I use a small needle found at TSC, cannot remember the gauge but its not quite the smallest you can get, its smaller than what is recommended for Pen but it is more comfortable for the rabbits (it does make it a bit harder to actually give though as it does go in slower). After a few days the scabs should disappear, this does not mean you can stop treatment though. If you stop, it will come back worse than before and will have to start all over again. Plus if done this way too many times, resistance may end up being an issue too as said before. He will not like you after, he may even scream, I had one rabbit do this the others could've cared less...can't really blame them. But it needs to be taken care of before it gets really bad.

IF you're not comfortable with it, you can always see a vet. Just be sure they do not try to give you penicillin for him orally, that's a big no no. Oral medications will not be effective either, might make the scabs disappear but it will not cure it.

@CDiana, unless you've noticed him pulling on wire...yes genetic is most likely. Need to check the litter mates and watch them closely as well as any other relations. It might be the once in a life time bad match up or it could be some thing the line carries and hides. If you line breed, you have a bigger chance of bad traits like this showing themselves earlier. No it isn't because of the line breeding that it shows up, its because you are making the odds better for the genes that are hidden to show up. It is exactly why I try to breed my rabbits closely, I want to know early on what bad things they might be hiding instead of finding out 5 years down the line when I have put so much love, time and energy into a line I now have to terminally cull all of because I find they carry a horrible problem.

 

[Carly1322]

Thank you SO MUCH everyone for your wonderful replies.

I apologize for not responding, I have been incredibly busy with just "life." I got concerned about the bumps, so I took him to a rabbit specialist - if I was going to pay to see a vet I wanted someone who knew the species well. As many of you suggested, she said it looked like textbook bunny syphilis. That day (4 weeks ago) he got his first penicillin shot - not taken orally as the vet told me prior that is a no no. He has had 3 shots in total so far, i had to skip last week due to MY illness (university and work full time during the week prevented me from having time until today) I still feel guilty.. but he got another today.

The vet told me I had to start thinking about other options for him, because the bumps are not getting smaller... They look at least twice the size and look very sore. Gary is eating, sleeping, pooping and peeing normally, as well as running around and "binkying" as much as he always have. The vet said if I wanted to go forward the next step would be a biopsy, or surgical removal (which could be risky due to the area). She said it may be cancerous, I have a very thick skin but this news crushed me. I wanted to give Gary a better life than sitting at the SPCA not having run around time or one on one time (he makes friends with everyone). I'm getting off topic, but I hope someone can give me some more insight. The vet said I could continue with the penicillin treatment (which I opted to for today) then to re-access in a week. The vet also said she expected to see some improvement after a week, is it possible that he does have syphilis, and that its just stubborn?

I am so lost, and so confused about what to do. Gary has been scratching the area and its really not helping the swelling.

Thank you in advance,

Carly

-- Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:00 pm --

how is his teeth? I noticed a similar black bump on one of my bucks, I have 3 almost 3 month olds sharing a large cage right now. I got them 5 weeks ago. This morning I noticed a black bump on his lip. I thought may be last night he was sleeping next to one of his brothers butts and got pooped on and the poop dried as it stuck. so i took a wet washcloth to get it loosened enough to pull off. when i pulled it off i noticed bleeding. I checked his teeth. they are messed up. they get plenty of roughage. he is a decent weight and eats fine. so i am guessing genetic? he has good markings so I was hoping to use him as a breeding buck. but now I wont get to.

His mouth and teeth are completely healthy, the bumps are more under his nose and to the left (if you're looking at him straight on). No bumps on his lips, I am stumped. (I replied below for more info)

Thank you!

-- Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:03 pm --

Hi there,

I replied below, please let me know if you have any more knowledge about it. Im really getting worried.

Thank you for your reply <br /><br /> -- Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:35 pm -- <br /><br /> My Gary present day.

 

[Miss M]

Oh, my, that is worse. It looks like it's ulcerated (open sore).

I hadn't seen this thread before now, so was reading through. From the first picture I, too, thought syphilis. I suppose it could still be, but a resistant strain. I think I would have expected it to spread some, not just ulcerate in place.

There are still several possibilities. It could be cancerous, as the vet said. It could be an infected scratch, from catching his lip on the J-feeder or something... some infection that doesn't respond to Pen G. It could be some sort of fungal infection.

There are several topical livestock medications you could try, that would be safe to use while he is on Pen G.

Vetericyn spray is pricey, but is supposed to be excellent for treating all sorts of skin issues like cuts, rashes, and abrasions. It can even be used in the eyes. Get the small bottle, because it doesn't keep for long periods.

Blu-Kote spray (or Wound-Kote Blue Lotion, also a spray) is inexpensive, excellent for treating bacterial and common fungal issues, but is VERY, VERY PURPLE, and will stain, even dry. One of the active ingredients is Gentian Violet, so.... I do use it on my chickens. Just sprayed one today, when my son discovered a mysterious laceration under her wing.

Nu-Stock lotion is inexpensive, excellent for treating all sorts of skin issues from lacerations to fungal infections to bacterial infections, but has a distinct piney smell and is a bit messy. You could probably apply it in such a way that he wouldn't make much of a mess, since it's such a small area. I can vouch for its effectiveness on fungal infections. I used it on myself, when nothing else would cure a ringworm on my leg. I've also treated a couple of rabbits with it after abscess draining, and have been very impressed. Nu-Stock is sulphur, mineral oil, and pine oil.

These are very commonly found at feed stores, Tractor Supply, etc.

I would get one of these, and treat him. If it improves, then it's probably not cancerous?

:clover:

 

[Carly1322]

WOW thats a lot of info!

I'm particularly interested in the Blu-Kote spray and the Nu-stock. I did some looking around and it looks like these two also kill bacteria??

So i do have a theory. a couple months ago I went on vacation, left Gary with my roomie as shes well-versed in how to take care of him. Shes well aware of whats going on with gary but neither of us thought to think it may be a developing infection from some sort of cut. She told me when I went away she used a bath mat in her room for Gary to play on, he hates hardwood floors and their not good for his hocks anyways. Shes had this bathmat since she can remember, has been used and to her knowledge doesn't know if its been washed... is it possible there was some sort of bacteria or even MOLD growing on that thing?? Maybe I'm looking to far into it.

The problem with getting a topical ointment is that gary will lick it off, I know he will. The Nu-stock said animals dont usually because it tastes so bitter, but if they do ingest it it could cause them to become ill... Any insight into this? I'm definately picking up one of the two, I don't mind that the one dyes things, I just want him better.

 

[Miss M]

I'm particularly interested in the Blu-Kote spray and the Nu-stock. I did some looking around and it looks like these two also kill bacteria??

Yes, in fact, sulphur (in the Nu-Stock) was used to kill bacteria before antibiotics were invented.

So i do have a theory. a couple months ago I went on vacation, left Gary with my roomie as shes well-versed in how to take care of him. Shes well aware of whats going on with gary but neither of us thought to think it may be a developing infection from some sort of cut. She told me when I went away she used a bath mat in her room for Gary to play on, he hates hardwood floors and their not good for his hocks anyways. Shes had this bathmat since she can remember, has been used and to her knowledge doesn't know if its been washed... is it possible there was some sort of bacteria or even MOLD growing on that thing?? Maybe I'm looking to far into it.

This is a distinct possibility... I would think fungus would be the most likely thing lurking in that mat that would attack a rabbit.

The problem with getting a topical ointment is that gary will lick it off, I know he will. The Nu-stock said animals dont usually because it tastes so bitter, but if they do ingest it it could cause them to become ill... Any insight into this? I'm definately picking up one of the two, I don't mind that the one dyes things, I just want him better.

The Nu-Stock... if it says it could make an animal ill, it's probably to avoid legal issues. I had one rabbit lick it almost completely off every time I applied it, and it never hurt her at all. :roll: But most animals don't like the taste, so they'll take a lick or two and leave it alone after that.