Broken and Dutch

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alforddm

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What is the current thought about Broken and Dutch being different alleles of the same locus?

This is from the paper on the English Spotting (that is the same as Broken right?)

The Dutch and the English spotting loci have been described to be very close to each other or to be different allelic forms of the same locus that could have an extended range of variation with different Dutch-English spotted grades [2], [10]. It could be possible that different mutations affecting the KIT gene could produce different coat color patterns in rabbits as already reported for other species.

It is now know that horses have at least 20 different mutations of the KIT gene and multiple alleles are know in other species as well but I have never seen Broken and Dutch discussed as if they are on the same gene before.
 
It is believe to be allelic because broken dutch are VERY minimally marked - look up Hotots

If they were completely seperate locus your would expect a broken pattern superimposed over a dutch pattern and NOT a 95% white rabbit.

I suspect vienna is also allelic to broken as you often get "false Hotots" in crossing vienna carriers to brokens but not always :shrug:

To my knowledge Ive not seen any true dutch x viennas so don't know what sort of pattern would be produced from this pairing

I don't know if you follow Ball Python morphs but Blue Eyed Lucy's (white leucistic snake ) can be produced from these 5 allelic morphs - lesser, butter, mojave, fire, phantom and their combos and each produce a slightly different BEL - some will have a bit of pattern, some will have darker eyes, some will fade or darken with age etc...
 
If they were completely seperate locus your would expect a broken pattern superimposed over a dutch pattern and NOT a 95% white rabbit.

I suspect vienna is also allelic to broken as you often get "false Hotots" in crossing vienna carriers to brokens but not always :shrug:

This doesn't necessarily mean that they are allelic. The White pattern genes overlap, to some extent, on function and often tend to have more than a simple additive effect when together. MITF, KIT, EDNRB, and PAX3 are the genes that have been studied to have such an effect. In horses we most commonly see this effect with Tobiano and Splashed White 1. Tobiano is KIT and Splashed White is MITF.

However, it doesn't mean that they aren't allelic either.

My personal theory on Vienna, is that it is a MITF gene mutation because of the blue eyes that often occur in VM animals. KIT genes normally do not cause blue eyes unless the animal is mostly white and even then it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. White Cats and White Alpacas are examples of blue eyed KIT gene mutants. This has to do with how the KIT gene functions it does not "like" to affect the melanocytes development in the eyes and ears. This is the reason that even solid white KIT gene mutants most often have dark eyes. MITF on the other hand, loves to cause blue eyes and mutations in this gene are known to act in a semidominant manner. Not that it can't be a KIT gene, to me, it just doesn't seem as likely.

I am not at all familiar with the Python Colors.

I would love to see more studies done on this.

__________ Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:45 am __________

This seems to indicate that English and Dutch may be on separate genes on the same chromosome.

A second linkage system was shown by Castle (1926) to contain the
genes for English and Dutch patterns of white spotting as well as the gene
for long (angora) hair. English and Dutch were shown to be very closely
linked with each other with less than one per cent of directly observed
crossing-over between them, but since Dutch showed a greater frequency of
crossing-over with angora than English did, the conclusion was reached
that Dutch was more remote from angora, and the order of the genes and
their map distances apart were estimated thus:
du 1.19 En 13.07 1
The chromosome which bears these three genes may be called Chromosome
II of the rabbit.

I'm going to have to find a gene map for rabbits and see if there is another gene known to cause white patterns on rabbit chromosome 2...

I find it interesting that there is no mention of KIT and MCR1 being linked in rabbits. I'm assuming in rabbits they are on different chromosomes? In horses they are on the same chromosome so KIT gene mutations and Extension show linkage. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:51 am __________ <br /><br />
The first discovered case of linkage in the rabbit was found by Castle
(1924) to exist between albinism and brown coat pigmentation.

So, chocolate and REW show linkage?


Here's the link to the paper I'm quoting from btw. http://www.pnas.org/content/27/11/519.full.pdf It's quite old but Castle is usually pretty reliable.
 
I can't find it but I read there are 3 dutch genes. One minimally marked, one that gives the desired pattern, and one that makes the rabbit look broken. They are equally dominant. Ideal pattern comes from 2 of the middle genes or 1 of the minimal markings and 1 of the middle genes. If you put 2 of the higher white genes with a broken you would easily get a hotot. Especially with 2 broken genes. The 2 may not even need to interact to do it. Does anyone know what level of markings come from hotot crosses?
 
KIT is on chromosome 15 in rabbits. Tha Castle paper is referring to linkage group.

The link is to a view of kit and neighbouring genes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/mapview/maps.cgi?TAXID=9986&CHR=15&MAPS=model%2CugOcu%2Crna%2Cgenes-r&QSTR=100327263%5Bgene_id%5D&QUERY=uid%28-1232618184%29&BEG=93%2C000K&END=95%2C000K&oview=default

B and C show linkage in classical genetic studies (~36% crossover vs 50% for no linkage) and the corresponding genes TYRP1 and TYR are ~86M base pairs apart on chromosome 1.

Linkage between En and E has been studied, with none found (although it is never possible to rule it out with a crossbreeding study). The chromosome for E is unknown (MC1R is in the rabbit genome database, but is on a fragment that has not been assigned to a chromosome).
 
KIT is on chromosome 15 in rabbits. Tha Castle paper is referring to linkage group.

The link is to a view of kit and neighbouring genes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/ma ... ew=default

B and C show linkage in classical genetic studies (~36% crossover vs 50% for no linkage) and the corresponding genes TYRP1 and TYR are ~86M base pairs apart on chromosome 1.

Linkage between En and E has been studied, with none found (although it is never possible to rule it out with a crossbreeding study). The chromosome for E is unknown (MC1R is in the rabbit genome database, but is on a fragment that has not been assigned to a chromosome).

Thank you for this. That was exactly the information I needed.
 

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