Breeding Selfs to other selfs

[ReiLossefalme]

I've read a lot of material saying that if you breed a black rabbit with BbDd to a lilac, you can get kits in black, blue, chocolate, and lilac - which sounds really cool and straight forward, but in show rabbits, is this a plausible method for maintaining several varieties with a smaller rabbitry? I can hypothesize that modifiers might make these animals have poor coloring, but I can't find any actual information on this besides vague warnings that you should maintain separate varieties, start with one color and then grow from there, or that these genetics rules only apply at this basic level. I've seen suggestions to improve blue color by breeding to black, but are the F1 black babies out of these crosses still good black show animals? Same with improving Tort, they say to breed to the deepest black rabbit you can find then breed the black F1 babies together, but are these F1 kits showable animals in their own right or only useful for their ability to create a next generation of Torts? Are Bb or Dd selfs likely to have more poor coloration than their homozygous counterparts?

Thoroughly Dazed and Confused,
Rei

 

[Dood]

It depends on each individual F1 kit.

Some may look smutty and not be a show quality black while others will be, it all depends on what they got from the genetics lottery

But the warnings are there for a reason, more likely than not a black or blue rabbit from chocolate and lilac lines will have the modifiers that make chocolate and lilac have a high quality colour and blacks or blues poor.

 

[skysthelimit]

:yeahthat:
I am a stickler for color rules, unless it can't be helped. That being said, my Rex have a messy color gene pool.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

I carry all four self colours in our rabbitry.. Just had a lilac doe with a litter of chocolate,blue black and lilac in it.. there is absolutely nothing wrong with their colour. Her sister, another lilac doe, was bred to a blue and has some of the darkest blue kits I have ever seen. Poor colour has absolutely nothing to do with "mixing" dilutes and full colour or what have you.. It has to do with distinct family lines and what is available to be inherited by the kit.If you have a small rabbitry this is a very good option as all selfs plus the otter pattern are very compatible with each other. Poor torts on the other hand are because they may lack rufous mods and if they are smutty, which is something I don't ever see at shows, it would be because of their non extension mods and possibly the fact that in a Mini Rex their fur is a wee bit too long. Other breeds one may probably see that smut more often as the fur shaft is a lot longer and may show the beginning of the black tipping.

 

[Dood]

I carry all four self colours in our rabbitry... there is absolutely nothing wrong with their colour.

that's nice but not true for all bloodlines, as you admit....

It has to do with distinct family lines

The chances someone will luck out and get the 'mystery' modifiers that give a clean blue, a dark chocolate and a fine lilac is slim to none. If you breed all 4 self colours then you will get all 4 self colours in your kits but they may not all be SHOW quality.

Rex are a difficult breed to get 'right' anyway, why not just learn from others experience and follow the suggested colour rules.

 

[skysthelimit]

I have rainbow peds, people keep quotin some oldtime breeder "build the barn bfore you paint it" yeah, yeah, yeah. then wind up with a messy ped with not enough modifiers to get some good colors. Sels not so much, black and blue you can get way with, chocolate will come back to bite you.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

"Mystery Modifiers" ?? If you breed two animals with poor colour then you get poor colour... that is not a mystery. Over 12 plus years of showing with only good comments on colour (among others things like TYPE and fur which make up the most points in a show) is what experience I would be speaking from. This includes several BIS and numerous Bob's and ROB's etc. etc. Sorry I don't use luck when breeding and I do worry about type before colour. That adage is true. Keep back type before colour or even what sex they are.Good luck Rei, its perfectly fine to mix the self colours. Try to find the best you can afford and perhaps you can find a mentor who could help you out in person?

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't consider Rex a difficult breed to get right, self colors are just fine. All of those colors are on the same locus, not a big deal. That's why so many people only do selfs.It's the agoutis that cause problems.


I have a personal bee in my bonnet about the build the barn thing, some people use it as a way to make all sorts of color combinations that sure enough come back to hurt peoples breeding prgrams, like chocolate in with chins, Reds with blacks, and torts start popping up, or you get castors with narrow bands, too much black surface color. Of course a good type is paramount, but an animal with an unshowable/poor color or prooduces such is still that, and as you said, poor color gives more poor color, and is a nusance, regardless of type. Who want's half their litter to be off color kits?

None of that has much to do with selfs as I pointed out, I have strange rainbow peds, not my preference, but the selfs are just fine , it's my Castors and chins that suffer.