Breed and genotype?

[AshleyNicholle97]

I bought this doe about a month ago and the breeder wasn't sure of her breed. I'm thinking New Zealand?? And I'm having a hard time determining her genotype.

 

[Sagebrush]

She looks like to me to be a Steel but that is about all I can say. There are others who know a heck of a lot more than me in that regard. Hopefully they will chime in soon.

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

She looks like to me to be a Steel but that is about all I can say. There are others who know a heck of a lot more than me in that regard. Hopefully they will chime in soon.

I have her labeled as a steel in my records but I'm trying to figure out her actual genotype to add to that.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I have her labeled as a steel in my records but I'm trying to figure out her actual genotype to add to that.

She looks to me like a NZ or NZ cross. She looks a little long in body, as if there's maybe some Flemish in there, but that could be just the way she's sitting. There's quite a lot of variation among individual rabbits, so from these photos I wouldn't be willing to commit to a specific breed or cross. What's she weigh?

She looks like a steel to me as well, which is usually <A_B_C_D_E(S)_>, or <A_B_c(chd)_E(S)_>. While neither is a standard variety in NZ, and silver-tipped steel is a variety recognized and commonly found in Flemish (called steel gray), I've found that many NZ whites hide steel and/or chinchilla alleles under their whiteness, which show up when you cross a NZW with another color. So, it wouldn't rule out NZ for me.

My hesitation is due to the observation that while at first glance she looks gold-tipped aka GTS due to the notable rustiness around her face, across her back and on her flank, she seems to have a silver nape triangle and white "tipping" in the fur shot, which would indicate silver-tipped steel aka STS. The rustiness could be caused by molt discoloration, but she also looks as if she might have shading on her face and ears. (I can't see her feet or tail, which may also be shaded.) This is even more distinct in the shot taken from from above in your other post. Her eye color also looks just slightly off for either a GTS or STS. So I'm wondering if maybe she's a sable steel or seal steel <A_C_c(chl)_D_E(S)_> or <A_B_c(chl)c(chl)D_E(S)_>.

Are you able to get a posed shot of her, and a view of her feet, belly and tail?

Also, just out of curiosity, what's the pink and white tab in her left ear?

 

[Mckatie]

I have her labeled as a steel in my records but I'm trying to figure out her actual genotype to add to that.

A lot of the answers will be in her kits. If you know your buck's genotype it's helpful. However , if you start with Agouti you would have a big A..she's not necessarily brown so big B not white so big C not dilute so big D ... but when the kits come, that's when the blanks start filling in. Have a rew kit? Both parents carry little c as their recessive gene. Chocolate kit? Both carry little b as their recessive.... and of course the steel gene

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

She looks to me like a NZ or NZ cross. She looks a little long in body, as if there's maybe some Flemish in there, but that could be just the way she's sitting. There's quite a lot of variation among individual rabbits, so from these photos I wouldn't be willing to commit to a specific breed or cross. What's she weigh?

She looks like a steel to me as well, which is usually <A_B_C_D_E(S)_>, or <A_B_c(chd)_E(S)_>. While neither is a standard variety in NZ, and silver-tipped steel is a variety recognized and commonly found in Flemish (called steel gray), I've found that many NZ whites hide steel and/or chinchilla alleles under their whiteness, which show up when you cross a NZW with another color. So, it wouldn't rule out NZ for me.

My hesitation is due to the observation that while at first glance she looks gold-tipped aka GTS due to the notable rustiness around her face, across her back and on her flank, she seems to have a silver nape triangle and white "tipping" in the fur shot, which would indicate silver-tipped steel aka STS. The rustiness could be caused by molt discoloration, but she also looks as if she might have shading on her face and ears. (I can't see her feet or tail, which may also be shaded.) This is even more distinct in the shot taken from from above in your other post. Her eye color also looks just slightly off for either a GTS or STS. So I'm wondering if maybe she's a sable steel or seal steel <A_C_c(chl)_D_E(S)_> or <A_B_c(chl)c(chl)D_E(S)_>.

Are you able to get a posed shot of her, and a view of her feet, belly and tail?

Also, just out of curiosity, what's the pink and white tab in her left ear?

I can get some better pictures when I go check on her in a bit. And the tab is her ear tag ID.

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

A lot of the answers will be in her kits. If you know your buck's genotype it's helpful. However , if you start with Agouti you would have a big A..she's not necessarily brown so big B not white so big C not dilute so big D ... but when the kits come, that's when the blanks start filling in. Have a rew kit? Both parents carry little c as their recessive gene. Chocolate kit? Both carry little b as their recessive.... and of course the steel gene

She was bred to a REW and is due Monday.

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

She looks to me like a NZ or NZ cross. She looks a little long in body, as if there's maybe some Flemish in there, but that could be just the way she's sitting. There's quite a lot of variation among individual rabbits, so from these photos I wouldn't be willing to commit to a specific breed or cross. What's she weigh?

She looks like a steel to me as well, which is usually <A_B_C_D_E(S)_>, or <A_B_c(chd)_E(S)_>. While neither is a standard variety in NZ, and silver-tipped steel is a variety recognized and commonly found in Flemish (called steel gray), I've found that many NZ whites hide steel and/or chinchilla alleles under their whiteness, which show up when you cross a NZW with another color. So, it wouldn't rule out NZ for me.

My hesitation is due to the observation that while at first glance she looks gold-tipped aka GTS due to the notable rustiness around her face, across her back and on her flank, she seems to have a silver nape triangle and white "tipping" in the fur shot, which would indicate silver-tipped steel aka STS. The rustiness could be caused by molt discoloration, but she also looks as if she might have shading on her face and ears. (I can't see her feet or tail, which may also be shaded.) This is even more distinct in the shot taken from from above in your other post. Her eye color also looks just slightly off for either a GTS or STS. So I'm wondering if maybe she's a sable steel or seal steel <A_C_c(chl)_D_E(S)_> or <A_B_c(chl)c(chl)D_E(S)_>.

Are you able to get a posed shot of her, and a view of her feet, belly and tail?

Also, just out of curiosity, what's the pink and white tab in her left ear?

I tried the best I could to get decent pictures but I was doing it alone and she didn't want to be picked up.

 

[Alaska Satin]

I tried the best I could to get decent pictures but I was doing it alone and she didn't want to be picked up.

That foot inclines me a bit toward sable or seal, as does the tail.

She was bred to a REW and is due Monday.

Great! That should give you the answer to whether she's full color <C_>, chinchilla <c(chd)_>, seal <c(chl)c(chl)> or sable <c(chl)_>.

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

That foot inclines me a bit toward sable or seal, as does the tail.

Great! That should give you the answer to whether she's full color <C_>, chinchilla <c(chd)_>, seal <c(chl)c(chl)> or sable <c(chl)_>.

How will i know which one based on the kits?

 

[Alaska Satin]

How will i know which one based on the kits?

If you get any full-color rabbits (self blacks, chestnuts, etc.) you'll know she's <C_> (a black GTS).

If you get any black (normal) chinchillas, you'll know she's <c(chd)_> (a black STS).

If you get all sables (either selfs or sable agoutis), you'll know she's <c(chl)c(chl)> (a steeled seal).

If you get a combination of black chins and sables/sable agoutis, she's <c(chd)c(chl)> (black STS carrying sable).

If you get any REWs, you know her second C allele is <c> (she carries REW).
If you get any himalayans, you'll know her second C allele is <c(h)> (she carries himi).

All of the above may or may not be steeled, since statistically, about half the kits will get her steel allele <E(S)>, but there's no guarantee in any particular litter (so they might all be steels, or there might be no steels at all). If the REW also happens to carry one or two copies of the steel allele, you might get supersteels, which will look like self blacks.

Clear as mud, yes?

Looking forward to photos of the kits!!!

 

[AshleyNicholle97]

If you get any full-color rabbits (self blacks, chestnuts, etc.) you'll know she's <C_> (a black GTS).

If you get any black (normal) chinchillas, you'll know she's <c(chd)_> (a black STS).

If you get all sables (either selfs or sable agoutis), you'll know she's <c(chl)c(chl)> (a steeled seal).

If you get a combination of black chins and sables/sable agoutis, she's <c(chd)c(chl)> (black STS carrying sable).

If you get any REWs, you know her second C allele is <c>.
If you get any himis, you'll know her second C allele is <c(h)>.

All of the above may or may not be steeled, since statistically, about half the kits will get her steel allele <E(S)>, but there's no guarantee in any particular litter (so they might all be steels, or there might be no steels at all). If the REW happens also to carry one or two copies of the steel allele, you might get supersteels, which will look like self blacks.

Clear as mud, yes?

Looking forward to photos of the kits!!!

Rabbit genetics are complicated