Blue + Chocolate Silver Fox

[Justintime]

I bred a Blue Silver fox with a Chocolate silver fox. Any guesstimation on what colors I will get?<br /><br />__________ Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:21 pm __________<br /><br />

 

[WallTenter]

If your chocolate carries a dilute gene as well, you could get black, blue, chocolate and lilac all in one litter

whoops - and your blue would have to carry a chocolate gene as well to get the chocolate and lilac.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

If your blue carries chocolate, you'll get black and chocolate. If your chocolate carries dilute, you'll get black and blue. If your blue carries chocolate and your chocolate carries dilute, you'll get blue, lilac, chocolate, and black.

 

[Dood]

Black silver fox

 

[Frecs]

This is something I'm still trying to wrap my blonde head around...

Blue is a dilute of Black. To get blue...both parents have to have dilute, yes? (I have one doe that throws blues every litter, the other doesn't even from the same sire. I lost that sire so I hope I don't stop getting blues from my blue-thrower....)
Chocolate is a recessive (from bringing in satin genes) and so needs both parents to be carriers of that gene, yes?
Lilac is a ??? ...chocolate has to be in there somewhere, right?

Black, of course, is dominate.

 

[Dood]

Lilac is a self rabbit that is both chocolate and blue/dilute

aa(self) bb(chocolate) C_ dd(blue) E_

 

[Frecs]

Okay, now, explain "self". Please. opcorn:

 

[Dood]

Self (aa) is not-agouti (A_)

An agouti rabbit that is dilute is called 'opal', a lilac agouti is called 'lynx', chocolate agouti is just called chocolate agouti, but in rex is called 'amber' and black agouti are called 'chestnut'

 

[Frecs]

Self (aa) is not-agouti (A_)

An agouti rabbit that is dilute is called 'opal', a lilac agouti is called 'lynx', chocolate agouti is just called chocolate agouti, but in rex is called 'amber' and black agouti are called 'chestnut'

I wasn't sure of the connection between agouti and self but from what I found in a google search...

agouti = hair shaft has multiple colors
self = one color the full length of the hair shaft

is this correct?

 

[Dood]

Yes, but this can be hidden by other genes.

All of theses colours are agouti based ...

Red eye white (REW) makes any colour rabbit look like a white self
Wideband makes a fawn rabbit look like an orange or red self
Two steel genes or a steel and a harlequin make a rabbit look like a black self
Chinchilla and non extension (AKA ermine and frosty) can make a rabbit look like a white self

 

[Frecs]

Yes, but this can be hidden by other genes.

All of theses colours are agouti based ...

Red eye white (REW) makes any colour rabbit look like a white self
Wideband makes a fawn rabbit look like an orange or red self
Two steel genes or a steel and a harlequin make a rabbit look like a black self
Chinchilla and non extension (AKA ermine and frosty) can make a rabbit look like a white self

And folks wonder why genetics makes my head spin...

How then, pray tell, does one know what the actual (genetic) color is? How do you tell the difference, for example, between a true Black and a 2-steel or a steel/harli rabbit? I guess you don't really until you do a cross to something else to bring out the hidden genes?

 

[Dood]

How then, pray tell, does one know what the actual (genetic) color is? How do you tell the difference, for example, between a true Black and a 2-steel or a steel/harli rabbit? I guess you don't really until you do a cross to something else to bring out the hidden genes?

You don't
Until they start having kits, or the parents and siblings can be helpful.

I got a 'black' ND buck many years ago and he was actually a double steel and only gave me gold tipped steel kits, lovely colour but I was working with seal and sable and not comparable with agouti.

 

[Justintime]

Thanks for your insight! I am learning a lot.