Beautiful Palomino Babies!

[5dognightfarm]

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[MamaSheepdog]

Good luck at the show! My crystal ball indicates that we'll be seeing a "Brag" in Random Rabbit Ramblings close to February.

 

[HendricksHearth]

They are looking good!

Lauren

 

[skysthelimit]

 

[Jana15]

Beautiful!

 

[Miss M]

Shem, Ham, and Japheth, eh? Do you know something I don't? :lol:

 

[5dognightfarm]

Shem, Ham, and Japheth, eh? Do you know something I don't? :lol:

LOL! I'm glad someone got it, I named them these obscure Bible names and barely anyone knows them...

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Shem, Ham, and Japheth, eh? Do you know something I don't? :lol:

LOL! I'm glad someone got it, I named them these obscure Bible names and barely anyone knows them...

Sons of Noah....right? Where's the old man? LOL

 

[SatinsRule]

At this point in time, Japheth looks the best, but with commercial rabbits, the worst one in the litter often develops into the best one in the litter by the time they're seniors. If you have one that isn't really impressing you right now but has rock-solid flesh, don't give up on it. That rabbit is bound to surprise you somewhere down the road.

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

At this point in time, Japheth looks the best, but with commercial rabbits, the worst one in the litter often develops into the best one in the litter by the time they're seniors. If you have one that isn't really impressing you right now but has rock-solid flesh, don't give up on it. That rabbit is bound to surprise you somewhere down the road.

I agree japheth looks like the better one but both are kinda hippy. Shem is very hippy and hollow in the loin. But they are cute. Good luck with them!

 

[SatinsRule]

At this point in time, Japheth looks the best, but with commercial rabbits, the worst one in the litter often develops into the best one in the litter by the time they're seniors. If you have one that isn't really impressing you right now but has rock-solid flesh, don't give up on it. That rabbit is bound to surprise you somewhere down the road.

I agree japheth looks like the better one but both are kinda hippy. Shem is very hippy and hollow in the loin. But they are cute. Good luck with them!

Japheth is anything but hippy, and likely has a 3-fingered drop from the top of the back to the top of his hip in the picture. That's generally what a commercial breeder wants to see, as the loin will most likely fill in as the rabbit matures.

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

At this point in time, Japheth looks the best, but with commercial rabbits, the worst one in the litter often develops into the best one in the litter by the time they're seniors. If you have one that isn't really impressing you right now but has rock-solid flesh, don't give up on it. That rabbit is bound to surprise you somewhere down the road.

I agree japheth looks like the better one but both are kinda hippy. Shem is very hippy and hollow in the loin. But they are cute. Good luck with them!

Japheth is anything but hippy, and likely has a 3-fingered drop from the top of the back to the top of his hip in the picture. That's generally what a commercial breeder wants to see, as the loin will most likely fill in as the rabbit matures.

Ok maybe your thinking depth????..by saying three fingered drop from the top of the back to the top of his hip.....Im talking about how smooth the rabbit is when you feel it like a judge would...by taking your cupped hand and feeling from the shoulders to rump...If it catches at the hip or you feel a bump at the hip, A judge would call that hippy or catchy or catchy at the hip.

Im not saying hes MAJORLY hippy but from what i see he is. I mean it is a pal so its not that big of a deal..but im not gona go easy on the breed because of that cause I would like to see a breed like this improve and get more popular.
But besides everyone has an opinion and its like judges..every show is different cause every judge has their own opinion.

 

[Random Rabbit]

I mean it is a pal so its not that big of a deal..

Gentle disagreement here. it IS a big deal !

Those of us breeding Pals for show purposes do Not want 'hippy'... 'low shoulders'... 'smut' or any other fault. Just like any other breed used in showing. Personally...*I* want the very best i can breed.

:bunnyhop:

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

I mean it is a pal so its not that big of a deal..

Gentle disagreement here. it IS a big deal !

Those of us breeding Pals for show purposes do Not want 'hippy'... 'low shoulders'... 'smut' or any other fault. Just like any other breed used in showing. Personally...*I* want the very best i can breed.

:bunnyhop:

Sorry if i offended you with saying that. I meant like there are a lot of pals in the same boat type thing but as i said i wouldnt be easy on the breed because of that cause id love to see a breed like this improve and get more popular. I have a few myself and would love to see them on shoe tables winning more. I was just explaining yeah im bein harsh but i want the breed to improve so.

 

[sommrluv]

lilfish can you tell me a little bit more about you and your knowledge base?

 

[Random Rabbit]

Sorry if i offended you with saying that. I meant like there are a lot of pals in the same boat type thing but as i said i wouldnt be easy on the breed because of that cause id love to see a breed like this improve and get more popular. I have a few myself and would love to see them on shoe tables winning more. I was just explaining yeah im bein harsh but i want the breed to improve so.

No offence taken.

I admire looking at a Good representitive of a breed... rabbit, dog, cat,or horse. To me "just a implies mediocre quality, and that it is no big deal, cuz nobody cares. I do not believe that was what You were saying. I did want to put it out there that i care very much about the Pals .

No harm. No foul. :bunnyhop:

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

lilfish can you tell me a little bit more about you and your knowledge base?

Im not sure of your question. But I think this is what your asking about..
Ive been in rabbits and showing for 10 years. I compete in 4-H and on ARBA level. Ive won the State Showmanship in MI 3 times, runner up once and won county showmanship 5 times...this year is my las year for state.
Ive won The State Award in rabbits and cavies.(which is the highest award u can get in 4-h for rabbits and cavies.) And won Honers the year before to my sister.
Ive taught on country, regional and state level about rabbits and cavies at different workshops.
Im a teen leader in my 4-h club for rabbits and have held every officer position in my club.
Ive competed in Michigan Rabbit Breeders Youth Association Royalty ad won Queen three times. I have also been their vice president twice. Im aged out now though.
Ive competed in ARBA youth royalty. And the different youth competitions they have which includes judging and breed ID. I won 4th out of 80 somethin kids my first year doing judging. Ive been to 5 ARBA conventions(Michigan, Kentucky, California, Minnesota, Indiana ) And plan to go to Kansas this year.
Im working on my Registrar's license ...got all my signatures just need to send in the paper and take the test and then work with judges. I do plan on becoming a judge..as ive been very encouraged to.
I hope that answered your question..i kinda tryed to make it short..i dont like to brag on myself lol

__________ Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:09 pm _______

And i completely understand being passionate about your breed.

 

[5dognightfarm]

x

 

[LilFish_JWQueen(:]

I just want to throw out there that the sire to these babies had three best in shows at the time of breeding to our doe, and our doe is no ugly duckling.

Shem is a little bit rough on the hips, yes. It is hard to tell from the picture though, Japheth definitely is not. I know you'll be at the state 4-H show Jess, you're more then welcome to handle them after the show and get a real handle on them both.

Im not ripping on your rabbits cait. You posted pictures for everyone to comment their opinion and thats my opinion. i highly doubt you would let me handle one of your rabbits but thats ok. And yes i will be at the state 4-h show since the gold clover showmanship is held there.

Also i do not believe a best in show rabbit always throws nice babies...it depends on the doe you breed it to. Also out of experience the ugliest of my does threw the best in show rabbits in their litters.

 

[SatinsRule]

Ok maybe your thinking depth????..by saying three fingered drop from the top of the back to the top of his hip.....Im talking about how smooth the rabbit is when you feel it like a judge would...by taking your cupped hand and feeling from the shoulders to rump...If it catches at the hip or you feel a bump at the hip, A judge would call that hippy or catchy or catchy at the hip.

Im not saying hes MAJORLY hippy but from what i see he is. I mean it is a pal so its not that big of a deal..but im not gona go easy on the breed because of that cause I would like to see a breed like this improve and get more popular.
But besides everyone has an opinion and its like judges..every show is different cause every judge has their own opinion.

The term "hippy" as it pertains to just about any commercial breed basically means that their hips sit higher than they should, that is almost always going to be accompanied by a flat spot on the shoulder, and yes it also pertains to depth at the loin (or the lack thereof).

With most commercial breeds, a breeder wants to see a good rise between where the top of the hip bone stops and where the top of the back is. A common way of measuring it is by placing the edge of your pinky finger on the top of the hip and counting the number of fingers which fit between the top of the hip and the top of the loin. That rise and depth (along with how the rabbit finishes in the hindquarters, where the crest or top of the arch over their back occurs, and how quickly their flesh at the shoulder rises off the base of the ears) goes a long way toward scoring body type, which is huge in any breed, but most especially with a commercial breed. And for a Palomino, yes, it is a VERY big deal in terms of how they're ultimately scored not only for BOB/BOS, but for BIS as well.

Looking at Japheth's photo, I can see very noticeable strengths over Shem. One of which is the depth and rise at the loin, which as he fully develops may easily be 4 fingers depth and that is serious/phenomenal rise. Another is how he finishes into his lower hindquarter. Not that Shem is a bad animal, he'll probably develop well as time goes along, but Japheth is just finished and developed better. Neither one of us is able to feel out that rabbit as you're describing, but what you're stating as far as what you're seeing defines what is wrong with judging today IMHO. It's almost like most judges I've encountered in the past year go out of their way to demonstrate that they don't know the first thing about how to judge a commercial breed. You simply cannot judge them by the same standard as you would apply to any fancy breed you may wish to name, and you're shortchanging not only the rabbit and its owner, but also the breed as they go up for BIS later on in the show by judging them in such a way.

I don't mean any of this in a mean-spirited way, but here's what you owe it to yourself to do. Hang around the table when Californians, Palominos, New Zealands, Satins and any of a number of other commercial breeds are being judged, and listen to the judge's comments. Ask a few of the more reputable breeders what they tend to look for when they select their animals. Compare that to what the breeds' printed standards say, and you'll get your answer of what an animal is supposed to look like. And I'd bet a dollar to a dozen donuts that the judges are wrong in the way they place them as least as often as they're right, if not more so. Your garden variety judge simply doesn't comprehend what a commercial breed should look like today.