Babies Dead

[ValencianFigs]

Hello,

This is the second time my female rabbit has eaten her babies? Why is that? This is her second litter. And is there a way I can save the next two that will be born?

 

[trinityoaks]

What makes you think she ate them?

 

[ValencianFigs]

Their bodies were half gone.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Their bodies were half gone.

If they died, it is entirely normal for the doe to eat them. That is how they 'clean up' the nest to deter predators. Likely they were already dead when she started.

 

[ValencianFigs]

So is this because she is young and this has only been her second litter or because she isn't a good doe?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

When and where did she have the babies? What kind of cage is she in? What kind of nestbox did you give her? Did she pull any fur? Are there other animals around that may have frightened her?

 

[ValencianFigs]

Well, she had babies a month ago and she ate them, and she had them today and ate the first two leaving half of the bodies there. She did pull fur, and there are no animals around. I removed the male two days before she had her babies. She lives in a hutch.

 

[trinityoaks]

ValencianFigs, we're telling you that if she ate them at all, they were already dead. She didn't intentionally kill them or eat them alive. The male shouldn't be in the hutch with her at all. He should be in his own cage, and when you are ready to breed, you bring to doe to his cage, not the other way around.

How much fur did she pull? What type of nesting box does she have? If she had a litter a month ago, and another litter today, that is way too close together. Next time, give her a couple of weeks before you breed her again.

 

[schmitty]

i am new at this. where the bucks in the same hutch with no divider? if so that is a no no.

 

[ValencianFigs]

No, they were divided, no access to each other, right next to each other and she was afraid so I removed him from the hutch. I just found out that the babies are being born dead, because her third one was born dead no movements, and she ate it right away. Is there a reason for this?

 

[MaggieJ]

It's impossible to say with any certainty what may be causing her to have stillborn kits. Sometimes a kit will become lodged in the birth canal and this can cause it to suffocate. The kits still in the uterus may also die. But one certainly cannot say for sure that this is what happened.

Is this a young doe? I suggest you give her a rest for a month or so and use the time to get her into top-notch condition. Then try breeding her again, one more time. Keep her away from the bucks except when you take her to one for breeding. If she still does not bear live kits, you may want to cull her from your rabbitry. If she has a nice temperament, perhaps you could find her a pet home.

 

[SMR]

Could it be possible she was pregnant with different litters causing this sort of issue, and is there still a possibility she's pregnant with the buck being with her so long? Since the buck was only removed a few days ago, if she didn't get pregnant in both horns at the same time maybe that caused issues, or am I completely off? When you do decide to rebreed her, I'd do it on one day or as some times suggested one day then breed again the next morning (dunno if it works but...).

 

[MaggieJ]

Yes, there is a possibility that a doe housed with a buck could have two pregnancies at different points of development... and that could certainly lead to loss of kits. My understanding is that with double pregnancies, the doe may miscarry the younger litter at the same time as she kindles the ones that are ready.

 

[ladysown]

hold on... if she had kits and they were dead, and she rebred her that's not too close together.

the question is NOT a breeding issue NOR a housing issue as folks have bucks/does together frequently AND The buck was removed two days before the babies were born.

so why the dead kits or eaten kits?

query: how old is this doe? Seriously...some folks breed does significantly earlier than they really should be. Just had to deal with a young mid-sized breed who had two failed litters and was only 4.5 months old. Think about that one for a minute.

as a general rule of thumb does will only eat kits that are dead. They are cleaning up.
BUT sometimes they will eat living kits. A person tends to assume the first UNLESS they see or hear a kit squalling while it's being eaten. (and yes, they do squall).

SO let's first Assume the kits were born dead. These are things to consider.
- could be that genetically the buck and doe are a poor mix - not every buck/doe combination is a good one.
- could be that the doe is built incorrectly for having live babies - some does are very narrow and simply cannot bear live young
- could that that the doe just needs ONE more kick at the can to get it right - her body may simply need to get into the shape needing for kindling.
- could be the each time she's kindled something has happened that has interrupted the kindling process which delayed things long enough to kill the kits

NOW.. if you can figure out that she has been killing them then...
- you could give her some meat the day before she'd due JUST IN CASE she's one of those does that is lacking something in her diet that causes her to kill them. DON"T argue please about rabbits being vegetarians. This is something that has worked for several old time breeders and you simply don't need to knock what works. Should rabbits generally eat meat? NO.. but if a short term measure helps the doe to successfully kindle who am I to argue especially since long term it does no harm?
- you could bring her into the house and watch her like a hawk. As in you stay up and wait and watch for her to kindle and remove the kits immediately upon birth
- THIS ASSUMES that you have another doe or two that you can successfully breed at the same time as you breed this suspect doe.

IF you think she's just a horrid doe and should not be bred...then sell her, use her for food, do whatever you need to, but DO NOT REBREED HER. The general rule of thumb is three strikes and you are out. I'm reducing mine to two strikes and say good-bye. If everyone else can get it together in two tries well... so can this particular rabbit.

 

[akane]

Breeding immediately after birth is not a problem if the doe is kept in good condition. I have 5 of them that have been doing it for a year and 2 that have been doing it for 2 years with 1 or 2 month break a year when heat or cold interrupts things or I make them take a break. The creme d'argent actually goes a bit nutty when I try to force her not to breed for awhile so I don't bother planning breaks for her. It's also quite standard to breed back within a few days of an entirely lost litter unless there is swelling from a stuck kit.

I would remove the buck sooner though. About day 28 everything should be in place for the doe who will kindle day 31 so I would take the buck out at least 4 probably more like 5 days, maybe 7 depending how big of space and how they get a long before she is due to kindle.

Do we know what breed? Some breeds have a much more difficult time than others and should be given more chance or bred at a different age. Smaller breeds like netherlands often have issues and may on standard take 3 or 4 tries to get any live kits. The closer they are to show standard the more tries it seems to take to get live kits out of them and the more risk the doe has. One reason I'm kinda happy Shimo and Hana are not perfect Netherland Dwarf show does but a bit bigger and blockier while my bucks are very small with the very round heads and light bodies. I believe I was told one of the small lops are a pain to breed as well. Larger breeds tend to do better if you wait a little longer than with the smaller faster maturing breeds. They also are less likely to have problems so 2 strikes may be all that's worth putting up with.

Also definitely what age and what have you been giving her to kindle in? If she has no box of any kind or material to build a nest in and only some fur pulled the kits will die of cold very quickly this time of year possibly even in warmer parts of the country and they will be inactive before they die because the cold slows them down so they look immediately dead and stillborn.

While I do not entirely disagree with giving meat to a doe that is eating live kits I want to say definitely do not do this if you have no proof she is eating them alive. You can make a rabbit very sick giving them meat so this risk should only be taken if you know the kits are coming out live and whole then being eaten. A kit can sometimes get stuck and then ripped open when the doe goes to pull it and so she eats it to, like others keep saying, clean up the nest. Leaving a dead or likely to die kit around will attract predators and the rotten meat in weather above freezing may kill the others.

Personally I would immediately remove any doe that eats live uninjured kits from my herd without trying anything. I find that to be beyond unacceptable poor parenting. They would be best as a pet and don't need to contribute their genetics to the rabbit world unless maybe if they've got all the characteristics for a national champion except this one problem.

 

[ValencianFigs]

Ok, thanks for the info. She is about 9 months old. Is that too young?

 

[ladysown]

shouldn't be...what breed is she?

okay.. just went back and read through.

This is her second litter from the same buck?

1. I'd breed her to a different buck
2. I'd check her confirmation (how she is built) if she's too narrow she won't be able to kindle well.
3. if she were my doe...I'd cull her out probably... though I might test breed her to a completely different buck just to rule out genetic difficulties between the buck and the doe.