Astrex coated meat mutt project

Rabbit Talk  Forum

Help Support Rabbit Talk Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hahahaha, that video!!! :lol:

Jeri flopping over on the tile… “yeah, I totally meant to fall off the side… this is how the cool kids chill”! :roll:
:rotfl:
 
I had an astrex line of velveteen lops. I can attest that it's fairy common on the east coast. I was in contact with several breeders at the time who were working with astrex genes. I stopped trying to raise them for the same reason most breeders seem to quit. Sweet tempers and absolutely terrible health, as well as it taking far too long to grow rabbits out long enough to see what their finished adult coat is like.
 

Attachments

  • GEDC9959.JPG
    GEDC9959.JPG
    210.6 KB
  • GEDC0263.jpg
    GEDC0263.jpg
    214.8 KB
  • GEDC0530.jpg
    GEDC0530.jpg
    277.7 KB
Wow, Zass, the coat on that last one is super cool-looking! And the half-naked buns are just so goofy looking. :oops:

Is there a link between the Astrex coat and poor health the way Charlies seem to be predisposed toward bloat, then?
 
Nymphadora":2295lq3u said:
Wow, Zass, the coat on that last one is super cool-looking! And the half-naked buns are just so goofy looking. :oops:

Is there a link between the Astrex coat and poor health the way Charlies seem to be predisposed toward bloat, then?

I can't find very many studies on it, so I only have antecedental evidence to go by. From my own experiences and the experience of many breeders I have spoken to, it does seem like there is some link, especially in lines that also have the balding trait.
 
From my light reading it seems like the "wuzzy" mutation comes with health problems and it's separate from astrex, though similar. But I do need to read more on that, and I need to re-activate my facebook to check out the astrex group and see if they talk about the health issues, I know they were saying there aren't any in the yahoo group but it's a much smaller group of individuals than the FB one with like, 500+ members. I sure hope it's not common for them to have health issues, because I'd be sad if Jeri comes down with something due to her genes. :( She's such a little sweetheart.

Waiting to find out what she'll look like as a adult is going to make me crazy impatient! I'm already chomping at the bit to find out what sort of coat she'll end up with, I will say she feels like she's softening. At first after she molted out and her fur came back in all the way it was a little course, like stuffing from a toy. Now it's turning more velvety to my fingertips.

Those pictures are really cool Zass! Thanks for sharing them! I love the last little bun, he looks very lightly similar to this adult rex with those wrinkles. :love:

Nymphadora":3b5zo44b said:
Jeri flopping over on the tile… “yeah, I totally meant to fall off the side… this is how the cool kids chill”!
Hahaha, the look on her face like, "Oh.. uh.. hmm.. this was unexpected, how should I proceed?"
 
I've never actually seen a rabbit with a confirmed wuzzy mutation. In the astrex groups I was part of on facebook, I would frequently see people try to broach the topic of various health concerns, only to be shouted down by others who said that it was their line and that selective breeding or culling would get rid of any problems.
The only consensus allowed? No health problems.
Sort of like how colony raising has no issues in the colony groups. :roll:

Later, I would see people either quietly sell out, or announce they are getting out of the breed due to those very same health issues that they weren't allowed to talk about.
*shrug*
I'd just like to mention that astrex is quite common as a random surprise in breeding programs, but vary rarely exists as a selectively bred trait in well established herds. Considering the speed of rabbit reproduction, the information available online, and the amount of people willing to take up an astrex project, I think, the implications speak for themselves.


On another note, my Mucky is the source of the genes I was working with, despite the fact that she only shows the slightest of curl as an adult.

She's several years old now, and a very fit rabbit with an iron stomach!!
I did hear from her breeder that her mother had very poor health, and died after struggling to produce just a few kits.

Some of her Mucky's kits didn't seem to have problems. About 50% did, despite excellent mothering. (She had a massive milk supply, and fostered many kits, none of which showed health problems.)

I determined that whatever it was, it was a genetically dominant trait. Her litters were consistently curly, with three different v-lop bucks, from totally different bloodlines. I know for sure that it wasn't just a bad cross. All of those rabbits were the same breed and thus rexed.

Later I determined that crossing one to a non-rexed rabbit would produce normal coats that did not show any curl.
Unfortunately, even the normal coated crosses from that line would develop swollen lymph nodes, as was demonstrated by her son when bred to a meat mutt doe. (He had slightly swollen lymph nodes as a kit, but they reduced with age.) He did grow up to be very fit and healthy. Other kits had nodes so swollen it disfigured their faces and I was forced to mercy cull.

Either way, MY line wasn't worth working with, but another line might be. I suspect there are many curl genes as it may actually occur spontaneously in different breeds as a fairly common random mutation. That would at least help explain why people report such inconsistent results.
 

Attachments

  • GEDC4371.JPG
    GEDC4371.JPG
    157.4 KB
Zass":2q89av1r said:
In the astrex groups I was part of on facebook, I would frequently see people try to broach the topic of various health concerns, only to be shouted down by others who said that it was their line and that selective breeding or culling would get rid of any problems.
The only consensus allowed? No health problems.
Sort of like how colony raising has no issues in the colony groups. :roll:

Oh goodness, you have a very valid point there! :x Maybe I should just keep her for more of a pet / meat breeding doe and not worry about pursuing the fun astrex coat. I'm really thinking strongly about going the rex route and it'd make things easier if I had her dad's cage open for a Rex buck. I wanted to keep her daddy to line breed and see what sort of curly coats I would get out of them, but if there is a greater chance of health issues it's not that important. More of a fun hobby thing. She's a mutty mutt so mixing her with anything should produce more mutts, not really a need to keep her father if the space would be better utilized with a pure buck of rex origin.

I don't know, something to contemplate while we're waiting to see if the Americans will become profitable. :D

On another note, I'm thinking about changing Jeri's name. My niece sort of claimed her back when she was just 3 weeks old and so we affectionately refer to Jeri as "Jayda's Rabbit" more often than we refer to her as Jeri. So I think her name is switching to "Jayda's Rabbit," lol. Obviously her mother says "Hell no we aren't getting ANOTHER pet.." and Jeri isn't going anywhere, but "Jayda's Rabbit" has been sticking pretty well. Odd name for an odd rabbit? Sounds about right...
 
wow, i didn't know about the health issues with astrex. probably wouldn't be something worth breeding for unless you could do genetic testing and see if the health issues are directly related or if they could be bred out. or just a couple years of experimentation.....if you can handle the possible ethical issues with that. they are lovely bunnies though :( shame. it seems like so many of the really interesting animals always have bad health issues! makes it hard for those of us who like unique animals but also have hearts.

still wouldn't mind buying a curly kit just to have and produce meat though! as well as to add to my bunny pelt collection - i hope to one day have a pelt that represents every coat colour and fur type, as many as i can produce/acquire on my own.
 
Well, even with my hands full of new baby rabbits, I let Jeri bounce about the yard yesterday and ended up getting some lovely shots of her relaxing in the dandelion. :D

Screen Shot 2017-03-25 at 5.13.56 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-03-25 at 5.13.49 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-03-25 at 5.18.42 PM.png <br /><br /> __________ Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:41 am __________ <br /><br /> So Jeri is still a spaz and still growing, 7lbs today at 4 and a half months of age. I'm waiting until she's 6 months before breeding her. Fur is still crinkly and quite dense, seriously like a cotton ball to pet.

Screen Shot 2017-04-08 at 10.30.48 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-04-08 at 10.31.23 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-04-08 at 10.31.40 AM.png
 
It's not as soft as a rex coat I would imagine, but it'd be a lie to say she wasn't my favorite one to caress. "You're just so soft and bouncy!" Luckily she doesn't mind as long as I bring bribery in the form of food...

Screen Shot 2017-04-10 at 6.30.20 PM.png
 
Jeri's growing up to be quite the looker! She's definitely growing out of her "awkward/clumsy" baby-looking phase into a charming young lady. :in_love:
 
Hahaha, look at her face! :D She jumped up to the top of the bucket and it rolled her right off. :lol:
Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 10.21.36 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 10.22.42 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 10.23.01 AM.png

Nymphadora":1pg8xe4e said:
Jeri's growing up to be quite the looker! She's definitely growing out of her "awkward/clumsy" baby-looking phase into a charming young lady. :in_love:

Thank you Nymph! I've been reducing everyone's feed since I noticed some tubby bunnies and she's been slimming up nicely. These pictures are from about a week ago and she's since lost most of that belly. (Less pellets more mulberry branches)
 
Jeri news!

Jeri has been renamed to Poker Alice (Alice for short, of course) and... I went ahead and bred her a month early. I wanted to breed her at 6 months of age but that wouldn't be until May 20th, (if she felt like it that day) which means kindle date would be June 17th. Currently predictive forecasting keeps us at mid 70s and lower 80s until May 25th, where it starts toying with staying in the mid to upper 80s and by June 16th we're steadily in the 90s. I don't want her pregnant that far into the summer, and I expect predictive forecasting to be a little cooler than what we'll end up getting, it's been such a mild winter and early spring temps.

This way she's pregnant now while it's really nice and will kindle around May 23rd before it starts getting really toasty. I decided to go ahead and see if she was even remotely interested yesterday by putting them both down in the large exercise area below the cages and it took all of 3 minutes for Buffalo Bill to tag her THREE TIMES. He started off humping her face and she was lifting sky high, lmao. Once he got the right way around BAM. BAM. BAM. Happy rabbits. :pinkbunny:

So.... in a month we should have more little babies! :D
 
2CrazyFools":2qvi3cid said:
Jeri news!
My favorite! :lol:

2CrazyFools":2qvi3cid said:
Jeri has been renamed to Poker Alice (Alice for short, of course) and... I went ahead and bred her a month early.
:p
Hurray! And here's hoping she took!

Truthfully, I'm loving the Wild West theme you've got going... it just speaks to my personal love for having things all nice and matched up and organized and cohesive. Plus the Wild West is just an awesome theme (I've been following the theme thread, so many great ideas). Alice and Buffalo Bill will make darn tootin' cute babies!

:cowboy:
 
ooo i can't wait! fingers crossed for a couple curly babies! though i'll be jealous because i want one :p she's so pretty, man. and that little dewlap! i'm partial to a well endowed chin myself. my rew rex lady has quite the dewlap when she's pregnant, i love it :3
 
Nymphadora":3c8haer7 said:
2CrazyFools":3c8haer7 said:
Jeri has been renamed to Poker Alice (Alice for short, of course) and... I went ahead and bred her a month early.
:p
Hurray! And here's hoping she took!

Truthfully, I'm loving the Wild West theme you've got going... it just speaks to my personal love for having things all nice and matched up and organized and cohesive. Plus the Wild West is just an awesome theme (I've been following the theme thread, so many great ideas). Alice and Buffalo Bill will make darn tootin' cute babies!

:cowboy:

I'd really be shocked if she didn't take, as she was extremely ready and he definitely had three big falloffs. I know, first time does and all but I've had nothing but success with the whole meat mutt venture. It's those pure-breds that give me trouble :x

I can't wait to release the logo and website! You're going to love it, :lol: I used Fiverr.com to pay someone $5 to design a logo for me and lets just say, I'm incredibly impressed with what I got for $5!

shazza":3c8haer7 said:
ooo i can't wait! fingers crossed for a couple curly babies! though i'll be jealous because i want one :p she's so pretty, man. and that little dewlap! i'm partial to a well endowed chin myself. my rew rex lady has quite the dewlap when she's pregnant, i love it :3

Oh I sure hope we get some curly babies!! Plus with what Buffalo Bill threw last time (those lovely smutty fawn kits) I'm interested to see what sort of colors they produce... plus curly? Heck yeah. So he's got the possibility of throwing black, fawn and his own frosted color, and from Alice's background her grandmother was Cali x new zealand and grandfather was black self new zealand, her mother's litter was broken black and REW kits, and Alice's litter was self black and REW. So I'm expecting black, white and then hopefully.... fingers crossed... more fawn. Little curly coated fawn kit would be awesome!

Thanks for the compliments on Alice, she started growing a dewlap really early and I could see it starting at 10.5 weeks old! :eek: Ahhh, I'm so excited, lol. Been looking forward to this litter for awhile.

Screen Shot 2017-04-27 at 8.40.47 AM.png
 
I've never heard of an astrex coat! For each hair is it wavy along the whole length of the hair or is it a crimpy sort of thing where each hair has multiple waves in it? If it is more crimpy instead of wavy, that might be good for angora coats so the yarn made from them would have some elasticity to it. Do they get mats in their coat?

Are there any breeds in the United States that frequently have this type of coat? Anyone know the genetics of it?
 
Here you go! CLICK ME! I'm a link!! I posted all the links about the astrex coat in one place so you can soak up everything I've been able to find online :D

So apparently kits go through two molts, once at about a month old (as you can see in Alice's earlier pictures of this thread) and then again between the age of 6 to 10 months. I'm looking forward to seeing if she holds the curl through the molt as they can molt it away and come back with normal fur, or it can come back REALLY curly like how it was before her first molt. Currently her fur is really dense and crinkled, but it's harder to tell in photographs. Certainly not the crazy curl she had a few months ago. Here's a close up picture.
Screen Shot 2017-04-27 at 4.21.28 PM.png

She has never gotten a mat, however I'd think the longer coats such as angora may cause more issues with matting, but this is all speculation.

It's definitely not breed specific and I have heard that when people are breeding for say, Rex rabbits, they would cull the astrex coats that would pop up and so pure breeds are less likely to produce this funky gene.

There's some genetic stuff in that link I posted, a few research papers and such that may be what you're looking for ^_^ Good luck!
 
Back
Top