ARGENT BRUN AND CHAMPAGNES

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Argent have the silvering gene in recessive form 'si si' and the names are just glorified colours to sound pretty, confusing, but pretty.

Basically

Cream D'Argent is a Fawn (agouti with non extension) rabbit with the silvering gene
Champagne is a self black with the silvering gene
Brun is a self chocolate with the silvering gene

If your black/Champagne carries a chocolate/Brun then half the kits will be chocolate/Brun, if not then they will all be black/Champagne and all will carry the chocolate/Brun gene.

Do you know if your Champagne doe had a Brun parent, or siblings? If so, she could carry the chocolate 'bb'
 
Yes, if you breed your Brun buck to his champagne daughter half the kits will be Brun and half champagne.

BUT they may be carrying a hidden extension gene if they have any Creme in their history so you may get a silvered tortoiseshell, you won't get creme because neither parent has the agouti gene needed for fawn.
 
A lot of local Champagnes do carry chocolate and sometimes dilute. I just got a Brun kit in a straight Champagne breeding.Totally unexpected and now we are back into Bruns! We never ever get torts. Don't know why someone would put the non extension where its not wanted or needed...
 
There are lots of 'mutts' around here. Cali cossed with NZ and anything under 5 pounds bred to another 'dwarf'. Most people wouldn't think twice about mixing colours from the same breed, they would just assume it was OK because they are all D'Argent, and would actualy be proud that they are purebred.
 
You do know that "Champagne" is not a color, but the name of where the Argent breed originated: Champagne, France? Sorry if it's old news, just the conversation thread seemed like at least some of you thought the color variations were "Brun", "Creme" and "Champagne". The original breed name was in fact, not Champagne D'Argent, but Argent de Champagne, which is still their name in Europe and Australia.
 
dragonladyleanne":1aaz0hmd said:
You do know that "Champagne" is not a color, but the name of where the Argent breed originated: Champagne, France? Sorry if it's old news, just the conversation thread seemed like at least some of you thought the color variations were "Brun", "Creme" and "Champagne". The original breed name was in fact, not Champagne D'Argent, but Argent de Champagne, which is still their name in Europe and Australia.
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yes, I knew that... I just go by what they are called here.
 
I didn't know that. I sort of thought it was weird that chocolate was called Brun, fawn was called Creme but black was called Champagne instead of Noir. Thanks for enlightening me :up:
 
My memori of French classes with instructors who lived in France at some point in their lives, tells me that the more proper name would be "Champagne d'Argent" as the "color" is second, as is "Crayon, brown" or "Fish, gold" (actually, fish, red) And yes, Chapagne is a region, made famous by it's giddiness inducing, sparkling wines. Me, I need to learn more of the Alsace-Lorraine area- where several ancestors came from as political refugees..
 
But it is a name and not a sentence so really it is proper which ever way the registry chooses, Is it not?
 
A ha!

Argente means silver - renard argente means silver fox

I guess back in the day they only came in black so noir would be redundant, but with the new colours I think they should re-name them brun argente d'champagne, creme argente d'champagne, and noir argente d'champagne just to clarify things.
 
Argent [Lapins] de Champagne means Silver [rabbits] of/from Champagne. It'd be like calling Jersey Wooleys, Wooleys from Jersey. When the breed was first introduced into the US, they were referred to as French Silvers, though perhaps some called them Champagne Silvers, and then others assumed "champagne" referred to their color, thus the flipping of the names in "retranslation" (just my opinion). The black base coat was the only variety at the time. I actually had a lovely correspondence with an Australian breeder who wrote scholarly articles (and told me that AU and UK still call them Argents de Champagne), and she consulted an American expert, who replied that he could not find the "WHY" of the name flipping, just acknowledged it happened.
 
Dood":23m66hfc said:
A ha!

Argente means silver - renard argente means silver fox

I guess back in the day they only came in black so noir would be redundant, but with the new colours I think they should re-name them brun argente d'champagne, creme argente d'champagne, and noir argente d'champagne just to clarify things.
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Actually, there IS an Argente Noir...it is a smaller rabbit than the Champagne D'Argent

http://www.thebrc.org/standards/N6-Argente%20Noir.pdf
 
tm_bunnyloft":25wy4v0r said:
But it is a name and not a sentence so really it is proper which ever way the registry chooses, Is it not?
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The only thing "improper" is the retaining of the "de", when flipping. If you replace "Champagne" with a less confusing place name, it becomes easier to understand. Silvers of New York, let's say, being the original name; no one would think it odd if you called them New York Silvers, but New York OF Silvers sounds odd, especially since the original useage of "of" meant "from". Another way to say "Argents de Champagne" in French, would be "Champagne Argents". Keeping the "de" (which becomes d' before a vowel) would be like saying the "New York Mets of New York". BUT . . . the breed has been called Champagne D'Argents in the US since the 20's or 30's, and it is just my weird little language obsession that made me go looking for the "why" of the name change. No criticism intended, and I hope no offense taken!
 

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