are rabbits "strictly" herbivorous

[skysthelimit]

I think that's a very good point and it seems that rabbits are particularly good at understanding what they need and compensating in their diets...

I put tums in the dish, and the does eat it when they need it, or they drop it in the pan.

The Angoras leave most of the BOSS in the dish, I put the pellets over it, and eventually it gets eaten, as they need it.

The JW rarely seem to eat their hay or grass ration, it's wasted, then suddenly they chose the hay over pellets, generally during a molt.

They seem to know what they are doing.

 

[owlsfriend]

read the other day that rabbits are not only just Herbivores , but not even vegetarians....this made me pause. Their point was not to feed your pet rabbit a bunch of carrots and strawberries. True, the base diet needs to be based on green plant sources. However, I'm fine with giving my rabbits a variety of foods, grains, fruits, an occasional nut. I don't give my rabbits banana muffins, because I like banana muffins and I'm not sharing, even a nibble with my rabbits. (Sorry buns.) As for animal based protien, I don't know. I don't feel like taking a risk, but that's my own uninformed opinion. It's all a matter of extent. An occasional treat, fine, maybe. I wouldn't be giving it daily by the spoonful.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I would be willing to bet a thread about "how to raise rabbits when the lights go out" would be of great benefit to a great many people very soon, --- ..

Fear of impending catastrophe brought on by our "dear leader" is what led me to raise rabbits and experiment with a grain and gathered weeds diet. My rabbits are on pellets now, but at least I know it is possible.

In the time I have been here at RT, I have noticed that a great majority of our new members also began raising rabbits because of similar concerns.

I think doing a little research into ways to feed your rabbits with what you can grow or gather locally , is getting more important then it has been for a very long time. Rabbits are the best choice for home raised meat in hard times, if need be litters of rabbits can be raised on tree limbs ,leaves, weeds, and grass gathered from the fence lines. [ and other plants we as humans cannot digest very well ] learning how to feed this locally available feed should be accomplished in advance of the emergency. [the people of the 1930's had no idea the crash / depression was coming ,and most people were not at all prepared ]
It is JMHO but,- what I see going on right now looks to me like the US military is preparing for something, when I see them preparing I tend to look at my own preparedness, and do an evaluation.-- [even though [and I admit], I have no idea what is really going on.]
Feeding our rabbits a good feed ration designed for production, could include some animal based food scraps, if we were gathering our other feed ingredients from what grows near by.

 

[Imogen Rose]

I'm must say I'm completely intrigued by the whole idea. In the UK it is illegal to feed animal products to herbivores- pigs, cattle, sheep, rabbits etc.
This is due to disease entering the food chain. Mad cow disease in the early 90's killed people... due to cows being fed diseased animal protein.
Very interesting to read everything that has been posted. opcorn:

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Think of this'd when a wild rabbit is chpwing down on the dandelion, is it going to pick off the ant that is in the flower? Is it going to turn down the tender rose tips because an aphid is on it? Nope. Down the hatch it goes!

 

[michaels4gardens]

I'm must say I'm completely intrigued by the whole idea. In the UK it is illegal to feed animal products to herbivores- pigs, cattle, sheep, rabbits etc.
This is due to disease entering the food chain. Mad cow disease in the early 90's killed people... due to cows being fed diseased animal protein.
Very interesting to read everything that has been posted. opcorn:

In England it was common to feed Rabbits meat scraps, from the kitchen, [along with other feeds] until just recently -referenced in the book - Keeping Poultry And Rabbits On Scraps
Penguin Press about 1941 [or so] was my first rabbit book over 50 years ago, and it is still one of the most valuable rabbit books I have.
--
Claude Goodchild, author of the rabbit section, spent the first 35 years of his life on an Essex farm and bred rabbits on a considerable scale from the age of 15. He later went on to run the largest rabbit farm of its time in England at Black Corner, near Crawley, Sussex. He started the Rex rabbit in England,

 

[Miss M]

I would be willing to bet a thread about "how to raise rabbits when the lights go out" would be of great benefit to a great many people very soon, --- ..

Fear of impending catastrophe brought on by our "dear leader" is what led me to raise rabbits and experiment with a grain and gathered weeds diet. My rabbits are on pellets now, but at least I know it is possible.

In the time I have been here at RT, I have noticed that a great majority of our new members also began raising rabbits because of similar concerns.

I think doing a little research into ways to feed your rabbits with what you can grow or gather locally , is getting more important then it has been for a very long time. Rabbits are the best choice for home raised meat in hard times, if need be litters of rabbits can be raised on tree limbs ,leaves, weeds, and grass gathered from the fence lines. [ and other plants we as humans cannot digest very well ] learning how to feed this locally available feed should be accomplished in advance of the emergency. [the people of the 1930's had no idea the crash / depression was coming ,and most people were not at all prepared ]
It is JMHO but,- what I see going on right now looks to me like the US military is preparing for something, when I see them preparing I tend to look at my own preparedness, and do an evaluation.-- [even though [and I admit], I have no idea what is really going on.]
Feeding our rabbits a good feed ration designed for production, could include some animal based food scraps, if we were gathering our other feed ingredients from what grows near by.

It's my understanding that it was the "poor" farmers who did best during the depression, many of them barely noticing the difference, because they lived prepared. It was what they did. They grew their meat and vegetables, preserved them, etc.

I find the old rabbit books interesting, because I know most people did not feed pellets at the time, and I want to know how they fed their rabbits... because I may end up needing to do the same shortly here, depending on how things go.

 

[Susie570]

Ok, got that out of my system.... :lol:

 

[michaels4gardens]

I think doing a little research into ways to feed your rabbits with what you can grow or gather locally , is getting more important then it has been for a very long time. Rabbits are the best choice for home raised meat in hard times, if need be litters of rabbits can be raised on tree limbs ,leaves, weeds, and grass gathered from the fence lines. [ and other plants we as humans cannot digest very well ] learning how to feed this locally available feed should be accomplished in advance of the emergency. [the people of the 1930's had no idea the crash / depression was coming ,and most people were not at all prepared ]
It is JMHO but,- what I see going on right now looks to me like the US military is preparing for something, when I see them preparing I tend to look at my own preparedness, and do an evaluation.-- [even though [and I admit], I have no idea what is really going on.]
Feeding our rabbits a good feed ration designed for production, could include some animal based food scraps, if we were gathering our other feed ingredients from what grows near by.

It's my understanding that it was the "poor" farmers who did best during the depression, many of them barely noticing the difference, because they lived prepared. It was what they did. They grew their meat and vegetables, preserved them, etc.

I find the old rabbit books interesting, because I know most people did not feed pellets at the time, and I want to know how they fed their rabbits... because I may end up needing to do the same shortly here, depending on how things go.

words of a "sort of" popular song -Song of The South ,- "somebody told us wall street fell, but we were so poor that we couldn't tell "

In "war time Europe" grain was far too precious to be used as animal feed , and alfalfa [lucerne] was not a viable crop in most areas , Rabbits were fed on agricultural waste [including cull potatoes] , fish meal,[made from commercial fish processing waste ] Bran ,[available via. government allotments] kitchen scraps, hand gathered hay, greens, [mostly kale, chicory, and weeds] and root crops grown for rabbit raising , [mostly carrots,turnips, swede, and sugarbeet] This was a very successful feed program, and a lot of meat was produced to feed a desperate population .

 

[Susie570]

This is just my opinion, but in the end, yes... rabbits are herbivores.

An herbivore doesn't mean that an animal will die if it eats meat. It means that the animal's natural diet consists mostly of plant material and that if they don't have plenty of plant materials in their diet, they will be unhealthy. I think that defines a rabbit pretty well.

Just as a cat is a carnivore, it cannot live a healthy life without meat, but will eat plant material and grains on occasion.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I have mentioned this before, but will again, - if you grow your own corn, - corn stalks, stored and tied in bunches, and stored vertically, will not spoil in most areas out west, and can be used as a source of long-stem fiber ,[it is fer better to store them in a barn after they are dried so all the leaf is not lost ] -- in the eastern part of the US and on the west coast, - they will need to be dried under cover of a roof, and stored in a shed or barn [to prevent spoilage]-- if you are forced to grown your own rabbit feed, root crops and kale do not have enough fiber for rabbits, so- adding the corn stalks will fill the need for long stem fiber in the home-grown diet.

-- Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:57 am --

This is just my opinion, but in the end, yes... rabbits are herbivores.

An herbivore doesn't mean that an animal will die if it eats meat. It means that the animal's natural diet consists mostly of plant material and that if they don't have plenty of plant materials in their diet, they will be unhealthy. I think that defines a rabbit pretty well.

Just as a cat is a carnivore, it cannot live a healthy life without meat, but will eat plant material and grains on occasion.

I suppose I can agree with you , if that is your definition of herbivore/ vegetarian, -
If people don't have plenty of "plant material " in their diet they will be unhealthy also, [but humans are not considered "by official science" to be herbivore, but "omnivorous" suggesting that a mix of both kinds of food is best for our species.] - but- if people do not have animal base nutrients,and "fat", [or supplements, or imported foods to compensate]
they will in time develop vitamin B , and other deficiency, and become unhealthy.

 

[Susie570]

- if people do not have animal base nutrients,and "fat", [or supplements, or imported foods to compensate]
they will in time develop vitamin B , and other deficiency, and become unhealthy.

Sorry to disagree, but that is definitely not true.
Humans can, and do, live very healthy lives on meat free diets and it isn't too difficult to get a nutritionally balanced diet in that way. Humans are designed to survive on a variety of things, it's why we're called omnivores. It's been shown that people with diets less focused on animal products and more on a variety of whole foods are healthier. People who eat only meat get sick. People who live without a balanced diet get sick.

 

[michaels4gardens]

- if people do not have animal base nutrients,and "fat", [or supplements, or imported foods to compensate]
they will in time develop vitamin B , and other deficiency, and become unhealthy.

Sorry to disagree, but that is definitely not true.
Humans can, and do, live very healthy lives on meat free diets and it isn't too difficult to get a nutritionally balanced diet in that way. Humans are designed to survive on a variety of things, it's why we're called omnivores. It's been shown that people with diets less focused on animal products and more on a variety of whole foods are healthier. People who eat only meat get sick. People who live without a balanced diet get sick.

JMHO, [and not to get argumentative, as I do not pretend to be an expert-- ]-- The science I have read suggests the following..

Nutrients Potentially Missing On A Vegan Diet

Vitamin A: The “direct” form is only found in animal products -meat, egg yolks, dairy (though much less so than meat) and fish. The vitamin A found in orange and green vegetables is beta carotene which the body must first convert to the usable form of Vitamin A. That conversion requires bile salts, which are produced by your liver when you consume fat (making fat essential on a vegan diet). So yes, you can obtain a version of Vitamin A in plants, but you’ll need about 6x as much beta carotene to equal the amount found in direct Vitamin A.
B12: This is the nutrient which vegans can potentially become deficient as you can only get naturally occurring B12 from animal products. (There are eight different B vitamins and our body needs them all). It can take time for the implications of low B12 to show up, with anemia being the most common outcome of very low levels.
Vitamin D: This is another one found only in animal products. Cod liver oil is super high in it, as is shrimp, wild salmon, sardines, full-fat dairy products, and egg yolks. Yes you can get it from the sun, but most of us don’t spend 15 minutes a day, flesh exposed, palms open. Furthermore, the darker your skin, the less D your body will produce.
Protein: You can get some of the components of protein (the amino acids) from legumes, seeds and grain, but meat and fish contain complete protein (meaning they have all the essential amino acids). The amino acids in meat/fish are also in a form that is very easy for most people to digest. Many people find grains and legumes (which contain digestive inhibitors) quite hard to digest. Note too how little meat you actually need to get protein – 4 oz of beef provides 30 grams protein; salmon 25 grams; tofu 8 grams.

 

[Susie570]

Buddhists seem pretty healthy... most of them are vegetarians, even vegans.
They've been doing it for a looong time, not just some kind of fad.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Buddhists seem pretty healthy... most of them are vegetarians, even vegans.
They've been doing it for a looong time, not just some kind of fad.

ahhh -- now we get back to definitions of vegetarian / vegan, -- I said animal based nutrients, and especially "fats" -- I was not using the word "meat" when I talked about "being unhealthy in time" most "vegetarian" buddhists I know, or met, used animal products, and especially fat in their diet, and know it is a necessity.
It is said by some elders of Hawaii, that a person can survive indefinitely on just Taro root and leaf-- as long as you have some animal based fat to go with it, [again- back to vitamin B ] and "most Buddhists" I met ,were not vegetarian -- just some of them, and the strict Buddhists would not eat beef [as it is considered decadent] but were happy to offer me pork, and share it with me. [that was in China, I can not speak for any other areas]

 

[Zass]

I think...what makes the rabbit seems like a herbivore to us, is that overly long and complex digestive tract
You know...the kind we REALLY don't have. That can wring nutrients out of things we couldn't dream of eating.

They certainly are not the only "herbivore" that will take meat opportunistically.

But there is a reason we raise rabbits for food...and not dogs or raccoons.
Many of us really do prefer to eat animals that do not eat meat, and I do think rabbits digestive tracts make them much better at getting all their nutrition from plant sources than we are.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I think...what makes the rabbit seems like a herbivore to us, is that overly long and complex digestive tract
. You know...the kind we REALLY don't have. That can wring nutrients out of things we couldn't dream of eating.

I would agree with you, and freely admit that rabbits are predominantly herbivores, and that is what is so great about them, - but-I assert that they are not "strictly" so, and thus their diet can be amended if need be, with animal based feeds, and they can preform wonderfully on such "amended" diets.

 

[Zass]

but-I assert that they are not "strictly" so, and thus their diet can be amended if need be, with animal based feeds, and they can preform wonderfully on such "amended" diets.

I agree with this completely. (I was editing my last post as you were answering it BTW, so it says more. )

 

[Susie570]

Buddhists seem pretty healthy... most of them are vegetarians, even vegans.
They've been doing it for a looong time, not just some kind of fad.

ahhh -- now we get back to definitions of vegetarian / vegan, -- I said animal based nutrients, and especially "fats" -- I was not using the word "meat" when I talked about "being unhealthy in time" most "vegetarian" buddhists I know, or met, used animal products, and especially fat in their diet, and know it is a necessity.
It is said by some elders of Hawaii, that a person can survive indefinitely on just Taro root and leaf-- as long as you have some animal based fat to go with it, [again- back to vitamin B ] and "most Buddhists" I met ,were not vegetarian -- just some of them, and the strict Buddhists would not eat beef [as it is considered decadent] but were happy to offer me pork, and share it with me. [that was in China, I can not speak for any other areas]

I'll agree it's more difficult for strict vegans to be healthy without supplements, just goes to support our omnivorous status though. <br /><br /> -- Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:40 pm -- <br /><br />

but-I assert that they are not "strictly" so, and thus their diet can be amended if need be, with animal based feeds, and they can preform wonderfully on such "amended" diets.

I agree with this completely. (I was editing my last post as you were answering it BTW, so it says more. )

I don't think there is anything such as a 'strict' herbivore, carnivore or omnivore. Every species is somewhat opportunistic (aside from a few, very highly specialized species, like hummingbirds). Rabbits can eat and thrive on a diet that contains some animal products. I just don't think I would want to go that route unless they were otherwise lacking in their diet and I had no other way to fill in the gaps.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Syberchick70 wrote:

I don't think there is anything such as a 'strict' herbivore, carnivore or omnivore. Every species is somewhat opportunistic (aside from a few, very highly specialized species, like hummingbirds). Rabbits can eat and thrive on a diet that contains some animal products. I just don't think I would want to go that route unless they were otherwise lacking in their diet and I had no other way to fill in the gaps.

The reason I started this topic is partly due to the many "instant internet experts" repeating ridiculous statements made by other "self proclaimed experts" on rabbit nutrition.
I feel that this vegetarian fadd has moved beyond sanity, and we now have people forcing their cats and dogs to be more healthy, by making them vegetarian .
It is also now popular to feed chickens a "vegetarian" diet. My point is, [ and I agree with your above statement ] that Rabbits are not "strictly" herbivorous.
- When I see people compulsing about "hurting their bunnies" because they fed a rabbit feed that contains some animal base fat, or protein, it shows me that they have been misled by the now common "fairytale" that rabbits are strictly plant eaters, and will be damaged by any animal products in their diet.
I wanted to illustrate the point that -until recently rabbits were fed animal products as a part of their diet, [some of us still feed that way ]- now days we have vitamin, mineral fortified pellets to feed, so this old way of feeding is not a necessity, - but some understanding of rabbits , their nutritional needs , and ability to assimilate nutrients from various sources, should be a part of a "rabbit breeders" education. The time may very well come when this type of knowledge may be useful.