Are all C genes incompletely dominant?

[Jasuji]

I read that crossing with REW or himi will lighten a shaded. Will a ch or c also lighten a black or chocolate? What would make my self black's coat have a brownish cast? Is it the b or one of the c genes? Or?

 

[guardianoasis]

When talking about a self rabbit that carries ch or c, no I've not found in my rabbits that it lightens self rabbits at all. A vast majority of my rabbits are sired by white (REW) bucks because that's all I had at the time. None of my blacks, blues or chocolates are lighter than their parents who weren't sired by white (REW) bucks. The only rabbit I have right now that I could say this REW lightens shades might work is my siamese (sallander) colored Satin who is chin/REW. But even then I feel it's more a combination of her other genes that make her coat lighter than the REW. She wasn't meant to be a siamese Satin. We just had no idea her parents carried the gene to make her one since those genes are recessive.

There are a few things that are non genetic that can give a rabbit a brown cast. Personally I've read experiences from other people that sunlight, heat, chemicals can do it. A woman was using a sprayer for bugs and it was misting a rabbit and the fur was damaged.

Genetically you may have to consider your rabbit may not be self (C), it may be shaded. Without a picture, or a few pictures we are basically just guessing.

If for whatever reason I'm confusing, I had minimal sleep and just woke up. So I'm sorry.

 

[Jasuji]

Thanks! I'd send you a nice hot cup of coffee if I could! So do you think the c or ch will actually lighten the chins or shaded? I see the shaded/himi cross in pedigrees, but what about the resulting himi's from that cross? Are they darkened by crossing with a shaded or chin?

 

[SableSteel]

c or ch won't lighten full color (C) rabbits but it can lighten chin or shaded. C is pretty much completely dominant; the others are more incompletely dominant. Himis won't be darkened by crossing with a shaded or other color, though. They'll have to be ch ch or chc either way, and won't get any of the darker cchl gene

Brownish casts on a self rabbit can either being because the fur is old (older fur can get a brownish, reddish cast especially if the rabbit lives outdoors) or because the rabbit might not actually be a full color self. For example, self chins can often have a brownish or grayish tinge to them - and a self chin carrying c or ch is often lighter than a normal self chin

 

[Jasuji]

Here she is - she almost looks dark chocolate here in the sun. Parents were Lynx & REW. Surprise!

 

[akane]

Himi and rew mainly apply to sable. 2 sable genes will give you a seal that has barely visible points instead of the shaded color. You need himi or rew with 1 sable gene. In agouti versions that are chinchilla or "sable chinchilla" where they appear chinchilla but are the sable chl gene it is not very noticeable. For all other colors but self sable versus seal they pretty much look the same. Any difference is no greater than a variety of other factors that could be contributing to a lighter color instead. From just other color modifiers we can't really keep track of to sun bleaching and molts.

Sometimes if you don't know the genetics for certain it can be difficult to tell a chocolate seal from a true black until you put them side by side. Some are more obvious but some you have to see in a variety of light and know what you are looking for to see the chocolate tint and ever so slightly blacker points.