Another Sick one...... :'(

[tm_bunnyloft]

Ok now this is getting very disheartening. My favorite bunny has now showed up with a yucky watery diarrhea now today. I have no idea what to do to stop this from spreading farther. I am not far off from culling the entire herd. Buying a steamer and steaming the entire barn and then pouring gallons of bleach all over the barn. saturate everything. And leave it sit for the next month or two with nothing in there. I am going to build pens in the garage for my new herd to go in. I am not taking any chances of this spreading farther than it already has. I am just sick over this.

I don't want to give up and just not keep rabbits so I must figure this mess out.

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm so sorry to hear this.

Would you like to review the problem so we can try to sort out what is happening? The first one, I figured was susceptible to something that your own herd had immunity to... but this incident makes me think that there must be another cause or that the problem was brought in by the rabbit that became ill first - in spite of your good quarantine policy.

How old is the rabbit that became sick today?
Have there been any changes in feed? What are you feeding? Did you start a new bag just before the first incident?

Sorry for all the questions, but sometimes it helps us to put the pieces together.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

Ok lets see. When I first bought rabbits I bought the main herd from one man. Then my son got the one who died somewhere else and I got the two little magpie girls that I was worried about being pregnant so young from someone else. And I got a nice NZ young buck as well from somewhere else. I just in the last two weeks put them all together and now they are getting sick.

The first to die had watery diarrhea and got lethargic and died over less than 24 hours. The second I thought was heat related with NO diarrhea and it was lathargic and after 24 hours I had DH put it down. Now I found my little girl with watery Diarrhea and I am giving her rolled oats, plantago, and hay.

All of these bunnies are under 4 months of age. The older rabbits of the original herd are still fine. And i still think the little black one was due to heat. maybe?

This is what I came up with as possibilities......
Food
disease from one of the groups that is hiding. But the first rabbit to die I did necropsy on and its liver looked perfect. And so did all of those I butchered.<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:33 pm __________<br /><br />The ill bunnies were all under 4 months
I am feeding producers pride rabbit pellets, hay and fresh greens.
No changes in feed. Yes a new bag before any got sick.
The bunnies came from 4 different places but all were quarantined according to where they come from till little over a week ago. None were sick during quarantine.

 

[MaggieJ]

I agree that the second rabbit, the one in the house, was likely unrelated. The symptoms were different.

This article may be helpful.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

I will keep thinking about this and see what I can come up with. I lost a fryer to the same symptoms a couple of weeks ago. It's never happened here before. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop... but so far the others seem fine.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Oh no, so sorry TM!

This link may be helpful to you, as it discusses diarrhea in young and old rabbits alike:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

Goodness- Maggie you found the same article! :lol:

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I hope yours continue to be fine. I have never had problems with sick animals like this because I am super careful about quarantine and their care. I am really at a loss so appreciate all the help I can get to figure this out.

I am building pens in garage for my new rabbits and they will stay there.

 

[Cindi Davis]

Awwwwww TM Im sorry , I hope your doe gets better

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I am considering switching to a pellet free feed. I am thinking oats or barley and boss. They get free choice hay already.
MSD I think you may be on to something with the corn free feeding.

 

[MaggieJ]

Tm, what kind of hay are you feeding? To go "natural" you may need a pretty good alfalfa or clover content, for the protein. There are ways around this, but a legume hay is by far the easiest way to go.

It certainly is possible that the problems you are having are something to do with the feed. Corn is a frequent culprit.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Just a thought- maybe introducing so many diverse groups of rabbits contributed to the problem. If each herd was carrying something different, the assault on the rabbit's immune systems has been multiplied. It might be wisest to introduce just one new group at a time and let them settle before introducing another group. :?

Which brings me to a nagging question that I have had... how do the "rabbit railroads" deal with quarantine issues when transporting rabbits from different breeders? I can't understand why they don't all get sick, especially when you factor in the stress of travel.

I am considering switching to a pellet free feed.

It might be wise to cut out their pellets for now and give them hay and oats. What kind of hay are you feeding? It is best to feed grass hay when feeding pellets, otherwise the protein ratio becomes too high.

I would add electrolytes to all of their water too. There are powdered products made for horses that would be pretty economical compared to human grade formulations.

If you have chewable Vitamin C tablets and/or Echinacea, I would give each rabbit one of those also. Some of my rabbits like them, others don't, but if they really need it they might eat it more readily.<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:12 am __________<br /><br />Additional note on hay- if you do go pellet free, you should feed them primarily alfalfa, not grass.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I went to the barn and I saw her eating and I actually saw her drink. Things are looking up. I am so excited. She just might make it through this. She had a normal poop.

I think it may actually be feed related. It has all started since I opened the last bag of pellets.
I may switch to this feed as it does not list corn on the ingredients list at all:
Manna Pro® Select Series™ PRO Formula Rabbit Food, 50 lb.<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:32 pm __________<br /><br />I am switching feed asap.

 

[faiththequeen]

Yay, yay! Hope that was all it was and your little bun makes it through

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Good, I hope that is all it is!

I would feed primarily hay and oats and start slowly with the new pellets. Maybe a quarter ration morning and evening for a couple days before bumping them up to their normal amounts.

 

[MaggieJ]

I'd put all the bunnies on hay and oats for several days, just to be safe. I'll bet it was the feed. You should contact the company that makes it and give them -er- heck.

So glad things are looking up for your favourite!

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I am so relieved.

I am not going to buy that feed again. I am thinking on getting a mix of barley and oats for all of my animals. Then giving the rabbits BOSS and alfalfa cubes. Can rabbits have beet pulp shreds? I would like to add that to the mix if I can.

I am taking my animals off anything with corn in it or a pellet where you can't see what it is. I won't be going thru this again.

Good call on putting them all on oats for a few days. I am not feeding the pellets I have left so they will all be making the switch. They should do ok I would think. Should I give them all rolled oats for like oatmeal for a few days or just plain crimped or rolled farm oats ok?

 

[MaggieJ]

Yes , they can have beet shreds, but I'd ease them in after the rabbits are accustomed to the oats and hay and alfalfa cubes. Some beet shreds have molasses, others don't. MamaSheepdog knows more about this than I do.

I would say use kitchen rolled oats for the youngsters and anybunny that looks a bit off but the crimped should be fine for the adults. Or a mix of half and half. Lots of grass hay too, especailly during the transition.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

Thanks. I will do that. They always get free choice hay. I think I will skip the beet pulp for the bunnies for now. I want to stick with basics and make sure we don't have any more feed issues.

__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:30 pm __________

Do the oats and barley need to be crimped or is that not necessary?<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:36 pm __________<br /><br />The last bag of rabbit feed I bought was from TSC. So I called and told them what is going on. They don't care. That is what I get for buying from a chain store. I will be sticking with my local feed mill from now on. They would have replaced the feed with the feed of my choice.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

My mix is:

4lbs Oats
4lbs Barley
2lbs BOSS
2lbs Beet pulp shreds*

*Actually just reduced to 1lb in this last batch I have mixed. It is not their favorite, and it is getting pricey. Last year I was getting 50lbs for about $14, and now it is $13.50 for 25lbs. Almost doubled in price. :x

I think regular livestock oats would be fine for them. (Edit: as long as they are not actively having diarrhea. Kitchen oats may be easier on an inflamed digestive tract.) You can buy whole or crimped/rolled. I find that the whole grains fall through the feeder mesh so I usually get crimped. However, whole can be sprouted, whereas the crimped cannot.

It is recommended to provide mineral blocks when you don't feed pellets. I use the red type sold for horses. MaggieJ knocks chunks off with a hammer, but I am far too OCD for that. I saw chunks off with a reciprocating saw.

Truthfully, mine don't all have the mineral blocks yet- I have been rotating the chunks I have through the cages, but none seem very interested in them. :? However, TrinityOaks almost lost her rabbits due to salt deficiency when she cut pellets out of the diet, so I am playing with fire.

 

[Piper]

The big thing around here, for stress, has been the salt / mineral spools - they are like solid electrolytes! When a baby has diarrhea the first thing most think of is pedilyte (sp), to replace the electrolytes that the body has gone through. Diarrhea and stress in rabbits, seems to be the same - they use up their electrolytes and even through the feed has salt and minerals, they need more than the feed gives.
-- Salt / mineral spools, for everyone!!!

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I have a couple extra mineral blocks so I will be sure and put a chunk in each cage. I am taking the corn and pellets out of my horses diet as well. I want to be able to identify by sight what my animals are eating.<br /><br />__________ Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:41 pm __________<br /><br />Question: do the rabbits prefer the crimped over regular. They can Roll the grains and loosen up the grain husk for better digestion. Its not as costly as crimped. But I care more about doing what's best for them. Mot what costs less.

If I decide to go with pellets what is the absolute best safest brand?