?? about Clover Hay & Other factors in natural feeding

[Frecs]

From another discussion thread Maggie said:

If you keep your rabbitry small and take it a step at a time, you should be able to transition your rabbits to an all-natural diet... provided you can get a good alfalfa or clover hay at a reasonable price. I haven't fed pellets to my rabbits for years. They get alfalfa hay with some grass content, whole grain (usually wheat but sometimes barley or oats) and fresh greens (weeds and tree trimmings for the Safe Plants List) from April to October. In the winter, they get greens I have dried for them and some fresh vegetables, wheat grass etc. by way of treats. You won't have as much problem with winter greens as I do.

You mention clover hay – I’m seeding a large area of former garden with white clover until I can get around to turning the area into garden beds. My “grass lawn” is actually more weeds (including white clover) than “grass”. Sooo…when I mow can I treat the clippings as “clover hay” for feeding the rabbits?

Oats – is this whole oat groats or rolled oats? Sprouted or not sprouted?
Wheat – summer or winter or does it matter? I have bags of both type that I purchased for doing wheatgrass (gross – experiment ended early) and sprouted bread (on the back burner). There is probably cheaper sources for wheat than from certified sproutable sources but since I have these on hand….

Fresh greens are generally not a problem for me to acquire year around. Currently I have garden beds filled with mustard (bolting unfortunately), kale, and spinach. I have rose bushes (one old fashioned and a couple dozen rugosa roses planted last year) which I understand rabbits love. I will also be planting a good many culinary and medicinal herbs, some “ornamentals” flowers/bushes for my mother , vegetables, and fruiting plants.

So, year around fresh should not be a problem. I just need to figure out what a well-balanced rabbit diet looks like. I feed my dogs a homecooked diet rather than commercial so it isn’t a huge mental leap for me to go natural with rabbits. (My mother was happy to hear that a “home prepared diet” for rabbits did not involve cooking!)

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Why do you cook your dog's food? Raw would be more beneficial for them, as cooking removes most of the health benefits. Especially if you are going to be raising rabbit, a raw diet for your dogs would be SO much easier!

 

[Frecs]

Why do you cook your dog's food? Raw would be more beneficial for them, as cooking removes most of the health benefits. Especially if you are going to be raising rabbit, a raw diet for your dogs would be SO much easier!

Because my mother can't handle the idea of her "babies" eating raw meat from the grocery store. At least I was able to convince her that home-prepared was better than commercial. I do hope that once we have our own rabbit meat (and duck and free range eggs) that she will gradually get comfortable with feeding them raw (since we will know our meat is good and safe). We take what we can get while maintaining peace in the home...if'in you knows what I mean!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

You have the right kind of lawn in the opinion of natural feeders! You will need to identify the different weeds first, in case there are any poisonous ones.

Whole oats would be fine for adults, but the rolled are thought to be easier for kits to eat. So far, I have only used rolled- the whole ones would probably fall through the mesh on my feeders. (When feeding oats to horses, some people mistakenly believe that the whole oats pass through without being digested, because the husks can be seen in the manure. You might see the same thing with rabbits.) I am not familiar with the differences between summer and winter wheat- I bought a bag of wheat berries at the grocery store to feed my rabbits. They also get barley. I haven't tried sprouting it. Akane has birds and sprouts feed for them and some rodents as well.

I plan on a more natural diet for my rabbits as well- currently they get pellets, grass hay, oats, barley, wheat, BOSS, lg sunflower seeds, and calf manna. I also have some dried sunflower stalks and flowers that I give them. They get an occasional chunk of carrot or celery, and now that the weeds are growing, some filaree, wild mustard, or grass. I prepped three beds for planting yesterday, so hopefully we and the bunnies will be enjoying more fresh greens shortly!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Why do you cook your dog's food? Raw would be more beneficial for them, as cooking removes most of the health benefits. Especially if you are going to be raising rabbit, a raw diet for your dogs would be SO much easier!

Because my mother can't handle the idea of her "babies" eating raw meat from the grocery store. At least I was able to convince her that home-prepared was better than commercial. I do hope that once we have our own rabbit meat (and duck and free range eggs) that she will gradually get comfortable with feeding them raw (since we will know our meat is good and safe). We take what we can get while maintaining peace in the home...if'in you knows what I mean!

Ah yes, I totally understand....My grandmother would cook whole meals for her dogs....literally people food! I bet once you get your own healthy, junk-free meat going, she will be much more willing to try it.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Some dogs wont eat raw meat or bones. I tried with my Great Danes, and unless I seared the bones in a pan they wouldn't touch them, and the same with meat. Our Aussie will eat raw meat- he ate a quail- but I'm not sure about the other dogs. The JRT kills mice and gophers, but as soon as they are dead he loses interest, and the cats usually take them. I am going to try raw rabbit with them, and see how it goes. A while back we were discussing dog foods, and specifically corn content and corn's uselessness for dogs. I found a grain free food at Costco (Nature's Domain), and the dogs love it. Chase will even eat it dry, and he is a picky JRT! Until I research raw feeding further, I feel it will be safer to continue offering the kibble as we transition to a home grown diet.

 

[akane]

At least I was able to convince her that home-prepared was better than commercial

A cooked meat diet with no supplements is deadly. If you are using grocery store quality meat and then adding in vitamins/minerals you might as well feed a good kibble or canned because that's what you've got. Cooked moderate quality (I would only call home raised high quality) cooked meat with added supplements. The dog food companies have already balanced it for you and the good ones have just as high of quality ingredients with food grade meats and no grains. You've taken away all the reasons to feed raw and left just the increased cost.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/p ... ngers-cats

 

[Frecs]

At least I was able to convince her that home-prepared was better than commercial

A cooked meat diet with no supplements is deadly. If you are using grocery store quality meat and then adding in vitamins/minerals you might as well feed a good kibble or canned because that's what you've got. Cooked moderate quality (I would only call home raised high quality) cooked meat with added supplements. The dog food companies have already balanced it for you and the good ones have just as high of quality ingredients with food grade meats and no grains. You've taken away all the reasons to feed raw and left just the increased cost.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/p ... ngers-cats

No offense, but I'd rather keep this thread focused on RABBIT food and off the very hotly debated topic of raw vs cooked canine diets. :roll:

 

[akane]

I haven't even seen where the debate is. A cooked diet requires supplements and it's not a debated subject.

 

[Frecs]

I haven't even seen where the debate is. A cooked diet requires supplements and it's not a debated subject.

Depends on who you listen to. Look, I've been on four different email groups and read 3 different books on natural diets for dogs -- some advocating raw and others cooked. I know the arguments for both. It is a highly debated, highly volatile topic and I left the aforementioned groups because of it. Since this is not a dog forum, how about we stick to rabbits and what they like to eat and what is best for them, okay? :roll:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Frecs, the dreaded "thread morph" has struck again... it happens sometimes here at RT. But we pride ourselves on being a civil group, who agree to disagree and generally believe that what works best for you is the best course to take. I hope you will find that whatever topic is being discussed, it will not be so hotly debated that you would feel the need to leave the forum.

So... what's on your rabbit's menu today? Have any pics of your weedy lawn to share so you can get some help identifying weeds?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I heard a commercial today advertising a Weed and Feed that targets Clover and Dollarweed...*gasp* I had to laugh at myself because before rabbits, I would have been totally good with that..."Yeah! Eradicate the weeds!" Now it seems unthinkable...

 

[Frecs]

Frecs, the dreaded "thread morph" has struck again... it happens sometimes here at RT. But we pride ourselves on being a civil group, who agree to disagree and generally believe that what works best for you is the best course to take. I hope you will find that whatever topic is being discussed, it will not be so hotly debated that you would feel the need to leave the forum.

So... what's on your rabbit's menu today? Have any pics of your weedy lawn to share so you can get some help identifying weeds?

Well, I don't get my buns until end of March...but...as for weeds, I gots them aplenty!

Weeds already identified:

Wild onions
White (Dutch) Clover
Dandelion
Verbena
Chamber Bitter (Phyllanthus urinaria)
Florida Betony (Stachys floridana)
Red Wood-sorrel (Oxalis rubra)
Lady’s thumb aka smartweed aka knotweed (Persicaria maculate)
Evening primrose
Morning glories going crazy everywhere…
ragweed

and I've only yet begun to id all the "weeds" on my half acre plot. I *think* there is also some "lawn grass" growing also but I have no idea what flavor lawn grass it might be.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

It sounds like you should just give up and call it a pasture! I know clover and dandelion are good, but as for the others, I'll leave it to the pros. Be sure to find out what diet they are accustomed to, and transition slowly away from that. I personally think I will feed pellets for quite a long time just to be safe, but hopefully the bulk of their diet will be plants that I can grow or gather.

 

[Secuono]

You can semi cook it, would hold value better and be more ok for your mother.

 

[MaggieJ]

The original poster has requested that we keep this thread on the topic of feed for rabbits. Please lets respect that. Anyone wishing to discuss the merits of raw vs. cooked diet for dogs or cats is welcome to start a thread in Our Other Animals.

 

[Frecs]

It sounds like you should just give up and call it a pasture! I know clover and dandelion are good, but as for the others, I'll leave it to the pros. Be sure to find out what diet they are accustomed to, and transition slowly away from that. I personally think I will feed pellets for quite a long time just to be safe, but hopefully the bulk of their diet will be plants that I can grow or gather.

It is definitely more pasture than lawn! And, I am encouraging that as I find the typical suburban monoculture lawn such a waste.

What I figure I will do is keep them on primarily pellets or something similar to what the breeder I'm getting them from is weaning them onto and work toward using more and more of what I have growing in my yard/pasture and garden beds. Ultimately, I'll get to the point where I am confident that I can take away the commercial feed. Or, the rabbits will let me know when that time has arrived by simply not eating the commercial feed any longer. :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:

 

[MaggieJ]

Good plan, Frecs! :goodjob:

That is exactly what happened with my rabbits. After two of three months of good hay and gathered greens and a bit of grain, they simply lost interest in the pellets. It was a painless transition, without anxiety about how they were doing. I thought we were never going to come to the end of that last bag of pellets!

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I found it very interesting last summer, that my rabbits just seemed happier, and more fit, with having the major portion of their diet being fresh!

 

[hoodat]

I prefer the red clover to white simply because you can produce so much more of it on the same piece of ground. I'm fortunate to be able to grow it year round here although it recovers a lot slower in the short days. If I grow it on soil that has had a lot of rabbit manure tilled in I can harvest every ten days in Spring, Summer and early Autumn. I usually have enough extra to make some into clover hay, which the rabbits seem to like almost as much as the green. I ran across a patch of giant dandelion and harvested some seed last Summer. It is now popping up all over my garden. Since it is such a low grower I find there is little or no competition with my garden plants so long as I give the veggies a head start. I don't pull the dandelion. I cut it at ground level, leaving the tap root in the ground to regrow. I also grow the broad leaf chicory for them and at least one row of collard greens. I have only a postage stamp sized suburban garden but it is amazing how many greens I can grow just for the rabbits and still have room for enough veggies to keep me supplied with all I want.