a fair viscious dog ruling

[akane]

For once the fear mongering over "dangerous" breeds did not win out. Not a big article but the issue is well known here. The circumstances are quite sad but the dog was released to it's home without being labelled a vicious dog. The owners will not have to do anything special with their supposedly dangerous dog that caused an accidental shooting by a police officer. No word what's happening to the guy who apparently can't hit the broad side of a barn.
http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/dog-in ... s-20150226

 

[Zass]

That officer is pathetic, relying on his gun instead of his wits.

Glad the neighbor was there to see the incompetence. I'm still surprised the dog was let off.


We had something similar happen here a few years back, except only the dog was harmed. A pitbull had left his apartment because a lock on the door was broken. The officers had to chase the dog off his porch so that they could shoot him on the renters front lawn. No people had been harmed, but it was well known that particular officer is frightened of dogs in general.

 

[akane]

It probably helps that most of Iowa is still enough of a farm community that guard dogs are not considered evil by the majority. Aside from a few bigger town/city areas most know to just stand still until the owner says it's fine when met by a threatening dog on a farm. Some poeple are stupid but they still rarely do anything about it when they get themselves bit. Mostly just complain to others they know who are familiar with that family. It's a self policing system that I hope doesn't get turned on us. It seems some people are nervous about our dogs because of my female akita and now the big foster male akita we have. Some people jumped in a pickup when our shiba escaped and wanted to go make friends. She's like 30lbs and wiggling happily :lol:

 

[Zass]

I've had people cross the street to avoid our pitbull when he was younger. :lol: Somehow, taking the newf out with him erased ALL FEAR...of both dogs :? I guess the pitbull just looked small and nonthreatening (65 lbs) when walking beside the giant friendly looking newf (over 120 + but twice that volume in fur).

 

[JenerationX]

We had one here where an officer said a pitbull was charging him. When the owner finally got his dog's body back, the entry wound was in the back of his head.

 

[Marinea]

I know that with social media, events like this are reported more these days, but I truly believe there is a new "breed" of police officer whose first instinct is to reach for their gun. I think we will see more shootings, of people and animals, and it makes me sad...and angry.

Just my opinion, but if the officer involved was shooting at the dog he felt was charging him, chances are he was either backing away from the dog or moving towards it as he fired. He fell, likely tripping over something as he moved. A horrible accident, surely, but to hit and kill the woman means two things to me: he did not have control over his trigger finger, and likely was shooting with her in the line of fire all along. Basic firearm safety. The man should not be a police officer, and the case should be looked at for involuntary manslaughter charges.

 

[wamplercathy]

If you take that the dog most likely witnessed the domestic dispute. You can understand why it would attack another male. When we got our Shepherd she hated men and would attack any that came around. Luckily we were able to bring her around. Our town has a breed band on pitbulls. The officers are trained on how to tell the breed from others. But their training is lacking. The cop that lived down the road from us, when we leaved in town, turned us in for harboring a PB.

Here is our supposed :evil: pitbull:


Just for those that are not familiar with dog breeds, this is Teddy Bear our Chug (chihuahua/pug mix). In the defense of the cop he does have the PB smile. :lol: Stupid cop.

 

[Zass]

My pitbull came to me because the husband of the family that owned him was placed on probation (for drug charges)

The dog was 5 years old and in splendid heath. He didn't then, and still has never had an aggressive bone in his body (at 13..or maybe 14 now). Regardless, the probation officer told the family that they were not allowed to own such a dog at the residence of the man on probation. As it put the probation officer in danger. :?

The poor dog was passed around from person to person until he came to us, along with his story, and his up to date vet records.

It was pretty clear our dog had never been abused or mistreated by his previous owners, and had been well trained and socialized to be perfectly stable around children, dogs, and small animals.

I still feel terrible for the family that clearly loved him for 5 years, and then lost him due to one member's misbehavior. Yeah, drugs are dangerous, but why did they have to lose their family dog???


(Not sorry enough to give him back though. He's my pillow now.)

 

[coyotejoe]

A good friend lived in a very remote area in Colorado, accessible by car only in the summer. He hosted a 4th of July barbecue for a few of his red neck buddies and of course they were shooting guns. Imagine that, shooting guns on the 4th of July. Anyhow, a realtor drove by with clients and the guys all waved with their guns and the dirt pimp thought that cost him a sale so he called the sheriff and claimed they were shooting across the road. Two brand new deputies arrived and when my friend's four border collies charged out barking like country dogs do the deputies pepper sprayed the dogs. This did not put my friend in a good mood so after a few poorly chosen but appropriate words he got thrown on the ground and handcuffed. This brought the dogs back despite still suffering from the pepper spray and only because his friends were able to restrain the dogs were they saved from being shot. The deputies lied a lot, claimed to have witnessed things they couldn't possibly have seen and my friend ended up having to plead to a misdemeanor because he couldn't afford a lawyer to take it to trial. Neither of the deputies lasted out their probationary period so that is at least a small plus for the Gunnison County Sheriff's Office.

 

[JohnMc]

Pit Bulls get a bad rap. Any breed can be trained good or bad. The unfortunate thing is PB's have the equipment to make bad behavior a nasty affair.

 

[coyotejoe]

You're exactly right JohnMc. I got into quite a discussion of this on Facebook. The thing is any dog may bite if startled, frightened or in pain but usually it's just one snap and it's over. The Pit Bull can't turn it off, once it begins an attack it is programed to have no mercy and see it through to the end. Fatal dog attacks are extremely rare but those that do occur are limited to just a few breeds and the Pit Bull does head that list by a wide margin. In the great majority of serious dog attacks, whether on humans or on other animals, the owners say the dog had never before shown any aggressive behavior but something just snapped.

 

[CptJack]

Pits can turn it off as easy as any other dog, and more easily than many terriers and the like. The status you're using are also wrong - pits do NOT lead the dog bite fatalities list, even IF people could be trusted to accurately report breed, which is so untrue (they can't identify or report) that the CDC is now releasing statements to that effect and no longer recording breeds at ALL in relation to bites. You know which dogs kill most? Intact, male, chained ones. And most people who die are children.

Anybody who says the dog just snapped is a dummy who can't read dogs, except for some RARE exceptions of dogs with neurological disorders.

 

[akane]

Pitbulls are fairly easy to train and not that aggressive. I would say akitas and some LGD are far more difficult to handle and capable of causing major injury. Shibas are probably the hardest thing to "turn off". They get an idea in their head and that's that but they have less capacity for doing damage. They usually reserve their teeth for the moment they know they can kill something. Many will snap at annoyances so a lot of people do not take their shibas to dog parks and around kids even with lots of socialization but for the most part they target things they know they can kill with a single mindedness I've not seen in other dogs. My akita and the husky can get excited by something, pay attention to something else, and then go back to the original thing. Shibas live for the moment. They cannot be distracted while something is in sight but once removed from the situation long enough to forget they don't remember to target that item again.

 

[coyotejoe]

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statis ... s-2014.php
http://www.livescience.com/27145-are-pi ... erous.html
http://puppytoob.com/dog-breeds/the-10- ... tistics/2/
While it is true that every dog is an individual, it is equally true that every breed of dog has certain inborn instincts, traits and characteristics. That is the very reason why there are so many distinct dog breeds. To deny that a Pit Bull was bred to fight makes as much sense as to deny that a pointer is bred to point or a hound is bred to chase. Certainly breed is not the only factor, probably not the most significant factor but it absolutely is a factor. I'm not supporting the various "ban the breed" laws, that is ridiculous, there are so few serious attacks by dogs of any breed but I do say the Pit Bull is a breed I would avoid.

 

[Zass]

It's a bald faced lie that pitbulls can't turn it of. Just like the locked jaw myth. They certainly can turn it off, and their jaws do not lock.

As far as owners saying that the dog showed no signs and just snapped..That is simply an attempt to avoid legal liability or responsibility for their animal. It's either that, or the owners REALLY couldn't read dog language and shouldn't have owned a dog to begin with.

Dogs can't lie, as they speak with their bodies. As far as I know, the only breed with a tendency to go crazy for no reason is the cocker spaniel. (Google: rage syndrome)

The problem with statistics, is that it's been proven over and over again that many of the pitbull attacks recorded inevitably came from dogs who do not actually have any pitbull blood. Anything from any kind of bully cross is generally called a pitbull, along with a whole lot of dogs who are not even similar looking.

Even locally, in a small town near here, one of my younger cousins was bitten by a bull mastiff (who had a history of abuse) The police wrote it up as a pitbull attack. :shock:

I'm not saying that there aren't dangerous pitbulls (There are dangerous dogs of every breed. I have a friend who was hospitalized by a golden retriever.), but I honestly do not believe that well bred pitbulls (as in, actual pitbulls, and not just mutts who kind of look like one) are anywhere near as dangerous as some rather questionable "statistics" make them out to be.

My experience has been that they are very eager-to-please dogs. I suspect, had I wanted my dog to kill for me, he would have. Instead, I told him to be gentle to my small animals, and so he was.

I believe that the pitbull problem has a whole lot more to do with a breed (or dogs who kind of look like that breed) being popular with a certain crowd.

Along with opportunistic people wanting to make a quick buck out of selling "pitbull" puppies. Hence, an abnormally high amount of intact males chained in populated areas.
Lets not even talk about people who attempt to "make them mean" on purpose in order to get them to behave as guard dogs. A purpose which they are really not the best breed for, as their natural guarding instincts are fairly low.

 

[akane]

Yes pitbulls have some dog fighting background (so do lots of breeds including akitas and german shepherds) and yes they have strong enough jaws to do damage. So do akitas, german shepherds, rottis, doberman and all dogs as large as that. Are they that aggressive though? not really. They are known to be pretty calm and gentle if raised indoors with a family. They actually aren't known to require that much training compared to all breeds together. They do need good behavior reinforced of course and being exposed to different situations is good but they aren't one of those breeds that really need to go to several obedience classes and have a really experienced handler. Mainly they just need to be kept safely away from other dogs but even a good portion aren't that bad around other dogs if they are raised as a family pet. Like I mentioned the akitas and some LGD are worse. I would also add german shepherds there. I know a guy who was in the military and said he would never suggest a german shepherd as a family pet. Such breeds need a lot of obedience and a knowledgeable owner or in the case of LGD are often isolated on large property and only have a risk of something going wrong if someone comes on their property around their livestock. Threatening and even biting is often considered acceptable in those situations. Pitbulls are just a more common problem from being more common (labradors were the top of the bite list from so many labradors existing and probably plenty without any training), all the mistaken breeds, and then the media going after every story that could involve a pitbull. Sadly right now the UK media has turned it's attention on akitas and many "akita like" dogs have been popping up as having killed other dogs and injuring people. With the required threatening attack dog pose and chain for akita pictures to go along with the story.

 

[wamplercathy]

I could pick up were others have left off, but what's the point. Ignorant people will believe what they like. :wall: Anyone who knows dogs, knows that each and every breed has it's pros and cons and have certain training methods that work best. Also each and every breed has it's bad eggs. (We as people are not excluded). That said, with responsible breeding, training, and owners, any breed can be a great family pet and friend. Once that is established any breed will guard and protect their loved ones. After 25+ years of working with "red zone" dogs my success streak was broken by a 12lb Jack Russel Terrier. He was improperly breed and was born with a screw loose. My point, as well as the others, is that we should not judge one on anothers behavior. Just some food for thought.

 

[JenerationX]

Yeah... I think the worst dog I ever tried to work with was a Jack Russel.

 

[coyotejoe]

Yes it is sad that this pit bull lost her owner, her loving home, her freedom and probably her life all in one bite so to speak. It was an unfortunate mistake but a pit bull is like a loaded gun in the hands of a five year old child. The child may be trained to handle the gun safely without accidents but they may not have the capacity to always exercise the best judgement.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/09/pi ... latestnews

 

[jeannie]

We have multiple HORRIBLE dog fighting rings here... craigslist is littered with dogs stolen from yards for bait fighting. One lady has on camera, a "water line" repair guy that took her two dogs from the fenced yard. He played with the dogs through the fence for 2 days and got them out on the 3rd day. Neighbors even saw him do it too!
fftopic3: sorry, but I thought I would share our plight here in Albuquerque and the surrounding areas.