6-8 week weaning age- is it a bunch of "hoopla"?

[MamaSheepdog]

There have been multiple posts on weaning age, with most suggesting 6-8 weeks. This does not make logical sense to me. I always thought the general rule was shorter gestation= faster maturity, with slightly longer maternal care in predatory animals. Mice have a gestation of 19-21 days, weaning at 21 days. Dogs and cats go about 60 days, weaning begins around 4-5 weeks, with some young starting to eat solid foods around 3 weeks, sometimes earlier.

Considering the fact that rabbit gestation is around 30 days, and the doe will breed back almost immediately, logically their young should be fully weaned prior to the arrival of the next generation, which would be around 4 weeks. We all know that they will start sampling hay in the nest at two weeks or even earlier, so by 4 weeks they are well accustomed to feeds other than milk.

Not too long ago, 6 weeks was considered the optimum age to introduce a pup or kitten into its' new home. It is now 8-12 weeks, with some breeders keeping their litters until 16 weeks. The belief is that the young learn appropriate behavior from their dam. This makes sense to me for a pack animal- they need to know the social rules for a co-operative family/hunting unit. Prey animals have less need of co-operative skills since they are mostly solitary, with the occasional exception (prairie dogs come to mind).

I'm beginning to wonder if the pervasive belief in weaning at 8 weeks has jumped species with no logical reasoning behind it. :canofworms: Red wiggler, anyone?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I wean mine at 4wks, or should I say my DOES wean their kits at 4wks. By that time, they are eating solids, drinking from the bottle and doing well. I use a 14 day breed back schedule on does that hold their condition and so that gives mom two weeks of no nursing between the litters.

 

[ottersatin]

Mamma,
in my opinion everyone is welcome to do as ever they wish to their rabbits.
I prefer to wean at six weeks and do not sell before eight weeks of age
as per the Ag and marketing laws of N.Y.S. Though you can sell younger
in groups of six or more. If you want to breed your rabbits on a 14 day schedule
then that is your option and you will have to wean the kits earlier.
It is all up to the discretion of the owner/breeder.
One Man's Rose is another Man's Daisy.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Mamma,
in my opinion everyone is welcome to do as ever they wish to their rabbits.
I prefer to wean at six weeks and do not sell before eight weeks of age
as per the Ag and marketing laws of N.Y.S. Though you can sell younger
in groups of six or more. If you want to breed your rabbits on a 14 day schedule
then that is your option and you will have to wean the kits earlier.
It is all up to the discretion of the owner/breeder.
One Man's Rose is another Man's Daisy.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

Dennis, I forgot to mention that I also do not sell before 8 wks of age. I feel it is in the best interests of the kits or the buyers not to do so. Also, I am very flexible with my breed back. If a doe seems to need more time, I don't breed her back at 14 days. About half my does are doing well with this, the other half I breed back at what ever schedule seems best for that particular animal.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I can certainly see the logic in keeping the kits until 8 weeks so they are well established and better able to handle the stress of a move.

 

[caroline]

I breed back @ 4 weeks & separate the kits to grow out pens @ 6weeks. this gives the 2week break to the doe. I really don't notice that there is much nursing going on during that 2 week period. So weaning may actually be happening closer to 4 weeks. I also don't sell kits before 8 weeks. I like to see how they are doing without momma for a while first.

One an interesting sidelight. I just started consistently weighing my litters @ separation/tattooing and am excited to start keeping track of the "weaning weight total" for each doe. I think that will be a great indicator of which lines are giving me the most "kit for my $"

Of the 3 litters that I separated last week one litter weighed 15lbs. [7 kits] the next one weighed 18 lbs [7 kits] and the last one weighed 20 lbs.[9 kits] A big bonus was that I really like the colors in the biggest litter too

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I have started weighing and marking mine too! I weighed 2 litters the day before yesterday, and had one litter to go when I discovered Floyd's abscess.

I have also started opening the front of my wire nests before the kits can hop out on their own, and they nurse more frequently since they have free access to the doe.

 

[caroline]

I do notice that the kits try to nurse more when they can get out of the nest box. As a mother of 4, all of whom nursed until they were over 3 years old. I guess I have some anthropomorphic sympathy for the does & don't want to overwhelm them any more that I already do with the production schedule their are on

Sorry to read about Floyd. I butchered my favorite broken opal doe who had a very suspicious cough. Her lungs and other organs looked fine. Didn't really see anything abnormal. A lot of internal fat though. Amazing, since she had nursed a litter of 12. Glad I have both sons and daughters from her.

 

[SMR]

I let mom wean, if that's at 4 that's at 4 weeks if later its later. I separate by 12 weeks of age though, I've got some does that would nurse 6 month olds. I do a gradual system unless the doe is being really horrible to her kids. I usually take the biggest 2, then the next 2 and so on until their gone. If mom's being horrible, all but the smallest gets taken. The smallest stays for a few days to a week to help mom adjust and not be so full of milk then is moved out as well. This is of course providing she's not bothering the smallest.

The general find for me is the longer they stay with mom, the better the condition and grow out, reguardless of breed. The fur is better, the flesh is better, their over all vigor is better it seems.

I do not sell until 8 weeks of age, if not longer. Some of my 8 week old lions and netherland dwarfs don't weigh but 4 or 6 oz and I don't think they'd deal well with a well meaning over excited doting new owner.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I do not sell until 8 weeks of age, if not longer. Some of my 8 week old lions and netherland dwarfs don't weigh but 4 or 6 oz and I don't think they'd deal well with a well meaning over excited doting new owner.

That makes sense to me...my Cals at 8 wks are about the same size as yours full grown! :lol:

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm pretty sure the doe is dry, the kits will be 5 wks on Sat., and she really stopped nursing a week ago. They are really eating up her food. Today I'm going to put them into a grow out pen.

The other doe is still nursing, they will be 4 weeks tomorrow. I smelled there little milk breathe the other day.

 

[hoodat]

I do notice that the kits try to nurse more when they can get out of the nest box. As a mother of 4, all of whom nursed until they were over 3 years old. I guess I have some anthropomorphic sympathy for the does & don't want to overwhelm them any more that I already do with the production schedule their are on

Sorry to read about Floyd. I butchered my favorite broken opal doe who had a very suspicious cough. Her lungs and other organs looked fine. Didn't really see anything abnormal. A lot of internal fat though. Amazing, since she had nursed a litter of 12. Glad I have both sons and daughters from her.

I use 2 foot high cages for my breeding does. That way I can put a shelf high enough so she can get away from the kits when they pester her after weaning. Kits will still try to nurse even after the doe is dry.

 

[avdpas77]

To me the weaning age is determined by several factors. I find that the larger varieties tend to nurse longer. Also, rabbits selected for meat tend to produce my milk and nurse for a longer period, unless that is affected by being bred. For instance, a doe which may well nurse to 6 or 7 weeks is going to have her lactation "reset" if she is bred at an early stage. What I have found with my does (specifically bred for meat) is that they will always provide milk for about 4 weeks, but if not bred will nurse for 6 to 8 weeks. If I breed them during the lactation, they will usually stop nursing within 10 days to two weeks. If does are selected for litter weight gain/day (as is one of my main selection criteria) they will usually nurse for 6 weeks or more.

I tried an unrestricted colony setting with a doe and a buck, and the doe would kindle about every 4 1/2 weeks, she would only stop lactating for a day or two before the next kindling. This was the main reason I found keeping a buck in a colony to be deleterious. While this doe had at least 3 more litters a year, she was kept very thin.

I usually pull my larger kits at about 5 to 6 weeks and leave the smaller ones another few days before I include them in the grow-out pen. I have never studied the "break-even-point" between the added weight gain of leaving the kits longer vs. the possibility of one less litter a year.

 

[ladysown]

weaning and breed back depend alot on the breeder and what they breed for.

If you don't breed for does that maintain condition while nursing and bred, then your rabbits won't stand up for it. If you don't breed for kits that do well being weaned at 4-5 weeks well then....you won't get it. What you breed for you tend to get with rabbits. But it requires hard and sometimes very difficult culling practices.

I sell kits without an issue at five to eight weeks of age. IF i think that the kits need to be bigger or stronger or whatever I'll hold them back, but most of the time... Good bye and they do just fine - those that don't generally have a reason why they didn't.

I never even considered it an issue until I was reading about kit mortality on sites.

In 5-6 years of breeding and selling rabbits to the general public I've lost THREE! THREE kits that died for no apparent reason when moved to their new house. Three out of hundreds of kits. These are kits sold at five - eight weeks of age taken right off the doe. There have been about six others that died within the first week...but all could be tracked down to child dropped it, child released it into the garden, licked something off the garage floor, etc. STUPID things. From from digestive issues with people doing what I tell them.. hay and pellets only for the first week. THREE, from 100's of bunnies.

NOW.. have I lost kits here? yeah I have. Entropathic issues were my nemesis for a while...taught me to breed for health so I gained this philosophy. If I bred a doe and buck and lose the kits.. I don't rebreed them to each other. If I consistently get health issues with a doe or a buck in the kits at the five - eight week age, I get rid of the buck or the doe.

This year I hit a new one... first time moms not eating at day 10 after birth. track down factor.. discover they all have the same dad... REALLY glad I sold the buck.

Breed for what you want. Sell by what is legal. Follow your conscience as it dictates regarding health issues and seriously breed for what you want...

When I hear of people being able to wean their kits at 3.5-4 weeks of age and their kits do just fine...and the doe kindles again and maintains health and vigour due to a strong culling and breed for health program that tells me a WHOLE lot about the potentials in rabbits to suit the needs of the person who owns and maintains their herd.

Look at what your long term goals are for your herd and consistently breed for that.

My herd health goals ... healthy vigourous kits that I don't need to mess with in order for them to maintain their health (so no trimming butt hair, no feeding oats to supplement weaning transition, no messy litter kits etc). Kits that starting eating pellets when I tip the box. Kits that keep growing and don't go through a stall period. ZERO kits dying from entropathic issues that are under my control (ergo breeding for strong constitutions). Healthy strong does that I can breed back at three weeks post kindle SHOULD I choose to do so - regardless of the breed involved.

What are YOUR herd health breeding goals?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Wow, really great discussion so far, everybody! I am so glad I opened this :canofworms: !

 

[skysthelimit]

weaning and breed back depend alot on the breeder and what they breed for.

If you don't breed for does that maintain condition while nursing and bred, then your rabbits won't stand up for it. If you don't breed for kits that do well being weaned at 4-5 weeks well then....you won't get it. What you breed for you tend to get with rabbits. But it requires hard and sometimes very difficult culling practices.

I sell kits without an issue at five to eight weeks of age. IF i think that the kits need to be bigger or stronger or whatever I'll hold them back, but most of the time... Good bye and they do just fine - those that don't generally have a reason why they didn't.

I never even considered it an issue until I was reading about kit mortality on sites.

In 5-6 years of breeding and selling rabbits to the general public I've lost THREE! THREE kits that died for no apparent reason when moved to their new house. Three out of hundreds of kits. These are kits sold at five - eight weeks of age taken right off the doe. There have been about six others that died within the first week...but all could be tracked down to child dropped it, child released it into the garden, licked something off the garage floor, etc. STUPID things. From from digestive issues with people doing what I tell them.. hay and pellets only for the first week. THREE, from 100's of bunnies.

NOW.. have I lost kits here? yeah I have. Entropathic issues were my nemesis for a while...taught me to breed for health so I gained this philosophy. If I bred a doe and buck and lose the kits.. I don't rebreed them to each other. If I consistently get health issues with a doe or a buck in the kits at the five - eight week age, I get rid of the buck or the doe.

This year I hit a new one... first time moms not eating at day 10 after birth. track down factor.. discover they all have the same dad... REALLY glad I sold the buck.

Breed for what you want. Sell by what is legal. Follow your conscience as it dictates regarding health issues and seriously breed for what you want...

When I hear of people being able to wean their kits at 3.5-4 weeks of age and their kits do just fine...and the doe kindles again and maintains health and vigour due to a strong culling and breed for health program that tells me a WHOLE lot about the potentials in rabbits to suit the needs of the person who owns and maintains their herd.

Look at what your long term goals are for your herd and consistently breed for that.

My herd health goals ... healthy vigourous kits that I don't need to mess with in order for them to maintain their health (so no trimming butt hair, no feeding oats to supplement weaning transition, no messy litter kits etc). Kits that starting eating pellets when I tip the box. Kits that keep growing and don't go through a stall period. ZERO kits dying from entropathic issues that are under my control (ergo breeding for strong constitutions). Healthy strong does that I can breed back at three weeks post kindle SHOULD I choose to do so - regardless of the breed involved.

What are YOUR herd health breeding goals?

As we say in dogs--easy breeder, easy keeper, easy whelper

 

[Legacy]

I have had to wean at 4-ish weeks on occasion and I have never had a problem with any of them. I prefer to ween between 5-6 weeks because I raise for meat and they grow so much faster if they are still nursing then. Like right now, I have a doe that seems to be having a hard time regaining her condition. Her kist are 4 and half weeks old. I took the first two off of her yesterday. By the end of the week she will be without any kits. It better for them to wean earlier than for her to take even longer to get her condition back. I will be culling this doe from heard. I will probably sell her. She is a great proven mom but she can't breed back as quickly as I would like to for meat and I know have others that can. I will replace her.

 

[Secuono]

You guys do know you can "milk" a rabbit just like any other animal with teats, right? I checked my doe after it seemed the kits never bothered her for any and all were empty, kits were 3.5wks old, started weaning at 5wks. Started checking my evil Am Chin doe, since I cannot stand her evilness, but she's still full of milk and her kits, 2.5wks, still aren't interested in anything but her milk.

 

[skysthelimit]

You guys do know you can "milk" a rabbit just like any other animal with teats, right? I checked my doe after it seemed the kits never bothered her for any and all were empty, kits were 3.5wks old, started weaning at 5wks. Started checking my evil Am Chin doe, since I cannot stand her evilness, but she's still full of milk and her kits, 2.5wks, still aren't interested in anything but her milk.

That's how I know she's dry. I've been milking her every day since I discovered the lump, and three days ago I tried milking every teat, and got nothing. These guys have been nearly climbing out of the cage for the past week, sticking their faces in mine, trying to get food from me. They definitely haven't nursed in a while.

 

[arachyd]

Excellent post, Ladysown! of the reasons many people wait till 6-8 weeks is that most move the kits, not the doe, for weaning. In a natural setting the kits would still live in the same area. The move to a new cage puts an added stress on them that does not necessarily occur in a colony or natural setting. If more of us bred for health and kept our rabbits in clean conditions there would be a lot less kits lost.