1st show in a decade - part deux

[luvabunny]

You know the saying, the more things change, the more they stay the same? It was like I never left. Same comments cards, same late start, even some of the same judges (only slightly older!)

I showed 3 bunnies, my bkn black steel jr doe, and the 2 sisters - the solid blue and blue torte.

The solid girls placed last and next to last - expected, since they will only be 3 months old in a few days. The judge didn't have anything bad to say, just that they needed more maturity to compete with the rest of the class. No DQ's and no bad comments, so I was happy.

The bkn doe actually placed 2nd out of 3, and the rabbit who beat her in the class took BOB. The judge was rather impressed, and gave her very good marks for ears, type and coat.

I didn't find any E-lops to purchase, the only one I was offered was jr buck, and I didn't need him. I don't even know how much he was.
My sister bought 5 satins from one of the top youth breeders in the area. I had never really felt the fur, or the type, and I was quite impressed.
Sort of like a bowling ball in a soft, fur coat!

I also got a lot of stuff I needed but couldn't find locally from the vendor at the show. I got a very nice 2 piece show table, a 3 hole carry cage, a pen style tattoo kit, a couple of pre-cut, build it yourself nestboxes, some coop cups, a standard of perfection, and a few other misc items.

All of this, and we still left about 12:30. The day was forecast to be 100+, and it was already beginning to get quite warm. About an hour and half drive home, unloaded bunnies, and we were in the A/C before the temps peaked.

Had a good time, and will probably do it again, but have no intention of getting into it to the extent I was before. Another saying...all good intentions....if these new bunnies come in as good as I expect them to be, they are gonna HAVE to be shown just to get their grand champion leg. Right???? :twisted:

 

[skysthelimit]

Glad a good time was had.

 

[ZRabbits]

Glad to hear you had a good time. And that you go some good feedback on your rabbits.

Karen

 

[luvabunny]

For those of you who have been showing recently, I do have a question tho.

My husband (who pretty much came to sit and babysit our bunnies and stuff) saw the girl next to us giving her rabbits both injections and drops by mouth. I saw at the vendors table a little tube of electrolytes which could have been the drops by mouth. No idea on the injections. Anyone??

The question simply raises because he also saw her doing some other slightly "illegal" bunny stuff, such as plucking white hairs, darkening toenails, and using coat enhancers. My thoughts are if she would do those things, what was she injecting into those rabbits? Again, I didn't compete against her, so don't have a vested interest, just wondering.

Last question, for the larger breeds who have a 6-8 class, are any of them actually checking pedigrees for birth dates? Obviously, if you were the type to enter an older bunny in a junior class just for the win, you would probably fudge the birthdate on the pedigree, but are any of the shows doing any checks and balances?

In the elops, you could not look at the bunnies (except for mine) and tell any size or age difference between jr, 6-8 and senior. Like I said, the jr (less than 6 month old) doe who beat mine in the class, won BOB. She was larger, in comparison, to every other rabbit on the table, and supposedly only 6 months old. Her brother, who I could see all of his "boyparts" when the judge flipped him over, took BOS.

Obviously a great crossing, they were some beautiful rabbits and deserved the wins, but certainly neither of them looked to be less than 6 months old. I've never seen a less than 6 month old buck have his parts hanging like that. Just wondering if anyone, anywhere, checks such things.

All in all, we had a good time and are happy with all of our purchases. It's just sad that some things are still so much the same.

 

[ZRabbits]

Unfortunately with anything, there are people who will do anything to get a win. And regarding the injections, hope that bunny wasn't sick. Again like I stated, some people will go to any lengths or risk to win. Now that's sad and so completely irresponsible.

Thanks luvabunny for bringing this up. I plan to attend my first show September 15th, and it will be one of the questions I'll ask regarding "AGE" of Jrs and Srs. And how the show checks pedigrees and age.

Karen

 

[Random Rabbit]

For those of you who have been showing recently, I do have a question tho.

My husband (who pretty much came to sit and babysit our bunnies and stuff) saw the girl next to us giving her rabbits both injections and drops by mouth. I saw at the vendors table a little tube of electrolytes which could have been the drops by mouth. No idea on the injections. Anyone??

The question simply raises because he also saw her doing some other slightly "illegal" bunny stuff, such as plucking white hairs, darkening toenails, and using coat enhancers. My thoughts are if she would do those things, what was she injecting into those rabbits? Again, I didn't compete against her, so don't have a vested interest, just wondering.

Last question, for the larger breeds who have a 6-8 class, are any of them actually checking pedigrees for birth dates? Obviously, if you were the type to enter an older bunny in a junior class just for the win, you would probably fudge the birthdate on the pedigree, but are any of the shows doing any checks and balances?

In the elops, you could not look at the bunnies (except for mine) and tell any size or age difference between jr, 6-8 and senior. Like I said, the jr (less than 6 month old) doe who beat mine in the class, won BOB. She was larger, in comparison, to every other rabbit on the table, and supposedly only 6 months old. Her brother, who I could see all of his "boyparts" when the judge flipped him over, took BOS.

Obviously a great crossing, they were some beautiful rabbits and deserved the wins, but certainly neither of them looked to be less than 6 months old. I've never seen a less than 6 month old buck have his parts hanging like that. Just wondering if anyone, anywhere, checks such things.

All in all, we had a good time and are happy with all of our purchases. It's just sad that some things are still so much the same.

What that gal was doing, aside from giving electrolites, is highly unethical, Very unsportsmanlike, and Against ARBA show rules. However.... it is Very expensive to file a claim... and trying to "Prove" what You saw is difficult. I would make a mental note to avoid dealing with such a person EVER in the future.

No, shows do not check birthdates. And , again, unethical breeders have shown underweight seniors in junior or 6/8 classes. Also... and i goofed up a birth date on a rabbit and had her as a 6/8 rather than a senior...simply cuz i did not add months correctly. ( now with the Evans i do not muck it as badly)

The more things change... the more they stay the same....even in the rabbit world. ....

DH and i sometimes play a game at shows, when we are in a different area with people we do not know. We watch and pick out people who, by their actions remind us of people we Do know. It is funny how "look, there is so-and-so's twin"..."yup, acts just Like Mr. This and that". Helps pass the time while waiting....... opcorn:

 

[ZRabbits]

For those of you who have been showing recently, I do have a question tho.

My husband (who pretty much came to sit and babysit our bunnies and stuff) saw the girl next to us giving her rabbits both injections and drops by mouth. I saw at the vendors table a little tube of electrolytes which could have been the drops by mouth. No idea on the injections. Anyone??

The question simply raises because he also saw her doing some other slightly "illegal" bunny stuff, such as plucking white hairs, darkening toenails, and using coat enhancers. My thoughts are if she would do those things, what was she injecting into those rabbits? Again, I didn't compete against her, so don't have a vested interest, just wondering.

Last question, for the larger breeds who have a 6-8 class, are any of them actually checking pedigrees for birth dates? Obviously, if you were the type to enter an older bunny in a junior class just for the win, you would probably fudge the birthdate on the pedigree, but are any of the shows doing any checks and balances?

In the elops, you could not look at the bunnies (except for mine) and tell any size or age difference between jr, 6-8 and senior. Like I said, the jr (less than 6 month old) doe who beat mine in the class, won BOB. She was larger, in comparison, to every other rabbit on the table, and supposedly only 6 months old. Her brother, who I could see all of his "boyparts" when the judge flipped him over, took BOS.

Obviously a great crossing, they were some beautiful rabbits and deserved the wins, but certainly neither of them looked to be less than 6 months old. I've never seen a less than 6 month old buck have his parts hanging like that. Just wondering if anyone, anywhere, checks such things.

All in all, we had a good time and are happy with all of our purchases. It's just sad that some things are still so much the same.

What that gal was doing, aside from giving electrolites, is highly unethical, Very unsportsmanlike, and Against ARBA show rules. However.... it is Very expensive to file a claim... and trying to "Prove" what You saw is difficult. I would make a mental note to avoid dealing with such a person EVER in the future.

No, shows do not check birthdates. And , again, unethical breeders have shown underweight seniors in junior or 6/8 classes. Also... and i goofed up a birth date on a rabbit and had her as a 6/8 rather than a senior...simply cuz i did not add months correctly. ( now with the Evans i do not muck it as badly)

The more things change... the more they stay the same....even in the rabbit world. ....

DH and i sometimes play a game at shows, when we are in a different area with people we do not know. We watch and pick out people who, by their actions remind us of people we Do know. It is funny how "look, there is so-and-so's twin"..."yup, acts just Like Mr. This and that". Helps pass the time while waiting....... opcorn:

Thanks Random Rabbit for that input. Shame that birthdates and pedigrees aren't used. I have read about how some Lion Head breeders will take their "uglies" and try to pass them as Angoras, which I thought was foolish and unsportsmanlike.

Sounds like a fun game you and your DH have. Should be really interesting to watch my first show. Really looking forward to seeing how it's done. But more important, can't wait to see all the different kind of rabbits in person.

Karen

 

[ilovehome]

I took some elops to the Duncan show in March. I really had a problem with how dirty the show tables were, and decided not to go back. It's very long trip for me, and there were no Giant Chins last time, and only 3 or 4 elop breeders, which surprised me because the show is so large. I've always had to bump my 5 month olds up to the 6-8 class because they are over the jr. weight limit. I usually weigh them before the show to be sure. The judge and the breeder should have weighed them if there was any question about it... I've never seen anyone check the pedigrees.

 

[luvabunny]

I never even considered the weight part of it, I was thinking on age only.

There were no scales to be found anywhere, and while he did measure every ear on the elops, I never saw him DQ a single bunny for anything, and I watched him judge several breeds.

The coops were very "used" as was the judging table. Both could definitely have used a hosing down. The judge even remarked several times how the bunnies wouldn't pose properly, because they were smelling something on the table.

Unfortunately, there isn't that much good show time in Okla ( mostly all fall and spring) and few shows put on. If I expect to get any winnings, I'm going to have to travel for them, but it's just stupid to drive for 8 hours to take 3 bunnies. There is another show at the same location around Thanksgiving. Wasn't planning on attending, as it came so closely after nationals. I guess we'll see.

 

[SatinsRule]

Last question, for the larger breeds who have a 6-8 class, are any of them actually checking pedigrees for birth dates? Obviously, if you were the type to enter an older bunny in a junior class just for the win, you would probably fudge the birthdate on the pedigree, but are any of the shows doing any checks and balances?

No, and IMHO they shouldn't be checking pedigrees on any rabbits exhibited. Everything in terms of responsibility falls back on the competitive spirit of the exhibitors who enter rabbits into a show (that's the way it should be), and checking pedigrees proves absolutely nothing while creating an incredible headache for other exhibitors and a rather notable inconvenience for both the show officials and the exhibitors who travel long distances to attend the shows, both of whom will be forced to endure longer waits for the shows to start, as well as with impatient exhibitors. Imagine a show with 1,000+ rabbits entered. Who is going to sit and check each and every pedigree for each rabbit entered?

Besides, pedigrees can be doctored or outright falsified prior to a show to include applying a different birthdate to the form, and you'll only wind up punishing people who play by the rules for the benefit of the people who are already going out of their way to get around the rules to begin with.

 

[3mina]

Theoretically, they're supposed to work on the honor system but people being what they are, we get what we have in every arena. Horses, dogs, rabbits, toddler pageants (yeesh)

 

[luvabunny]

All true, and I've never seen a pedigree checked before, but since some of you said coop cards were no longer used where you were, I was hoping that some track might be being kept of how long juniors were shown. Obviously, if a rabbit has shown for over 6 months, it is no longer a jr. Here in Okla, like I said, the seasons are really only fall and spring, so it would be harder to keep up with.

Really, stuff like this is why I got out of showing and rabbits in the first place so many years ago. It's disheartening to find that nothing at all has changed. Still, I enjoyed the show, and will definitely attend others when my new bunnies arrive at nationals.

 

[3mina]

Luvabunny, the only thing to do in order to keep your sanity is only take enough note of these people to avoid them.

 

[Piper]

OK, this is assuming that pedigrees have to be registered, with the main organization, and that to get progressive awards, that the DOB and ages have to match up.
- Why check pedigrees at show? If you are not honest, when the show results go in, you will not be awarded the legs.

 

[SatinsRule]

All true, and I've never seen a pedigree checked before, but since some of you said coop cards were no longer used where you were, I was hoping that some track might be being kept of how long juniors were shown. Obviously, if a rabbit has shown for over 6 months, it is no longer a jr. Here in Okla, like I said, the seasons are really only fall and spring, so it would be harder to keep up with.

Really, stuff like this is why I got out of showing and rabbits in the first place so many years ago. It's disheartening to find that nothing at all has changed. Still, I enjoyed the show, and will definitely attend others when my new bunnies arrive at nationals.

Luvabunny,

Here are the harsh realities of the showroom scene.

-The sweepstakes programs are still a watered down sham, and no matter how you try to fix the system to prevent it, there are going to be loopholes which some breeders are going to walk through and manipulate.

-The classes are not foolproof, and they are never going to be. No matter what you do to try and revamp it, there are going to be loopholes which some breeders are going to walk through and manipulate.

-There is still a good ole boy (GOB) program at shows. While I don't necessarily believe that it's as widespread as it was a few decades ago, you can rest assured that everywhere there is a club, there are going to be the few chosen golden boy and golden gal breeders who are going to get "the hookup" from certain judges who know and are attached to said GOB program.

-There are still parents who raise rabbits then allow their kids to show them in youth divisions. Despite the best-laid plans of trying to revamp the system to prevent it and going as far as legislating that all youth exhibitors carry their own rabbits to the table (in most cases, it is kids who were already doing so), there are going to be loopholes which some breeders are going to walk through and manipulate.

All of the above are just facts of life. If you're the type who throws up his or her hands and walks away rather than sticking around long enough to begin embarrassing the judges and breeders who manipulate it to their advantage, it's hard to really blame said breeders and judges for it.

The showroom wins with rabbits entered into wrong classes are hollow to begin with, mainly because the rabbit in question is never going to qualify for grand championship because it will come out in the wash when said rabbit(s) registrations (which are on file and pulled at ARBA HQ when the GC application is filed by the exhibitor) show a birthdate which is inconsistent with the classes in which the legs were won.

Wanna develop a "tracking system" for shows to ensure that rabbits are entered in the right classes? Do all the developmental work in bringing it online and working out the kinks, then run it by yourself for a couple of years for every club show in your state. What you're going to find is that there are relatively few offenders out there, all the while slowing down the entries process at local shows to the point that no one is going to want to attend them because of the red tape involved and because of the ridiculous hours they'll be getting back home from each event. Everyone on here knows that I talk about the February shows in Peoria, IL alot, and honestly it is the biggest local show I attend each year. Last February, they had like 1,200+ rabbits in the showroom. Just try tracking that many exhibitors' rabbits in a morning before letting a show get started. I'll tell you right now that the day they ever started doing it, I'd stop attending for the mere fact that I normally have to drive all night just to get there on time. Push a show into an 11:00 or noon start time, and it's an increasingly difficult circumstance to put longer distance exhibitors into while guaranteeing that they'll stop showing up for them. That doesn't work for anyone.