Scattered White Hairs?

MamaSheepdog · May 5, 2013

I keep getting scattered white hairs in my black Rex. Most of the time it is only a half dozen or so, but sometimes there is a little white tip on the tail- about 15 or 20 hairs, maybe.

I have done a lot of broken to solid breedings. Is that the problem?

How do I fix it?

So far I have been culling blacks right and left, but I would really like to get a nice clean black.

skysthelimit · May 5, 2013

I've been told the broken breedings thing is a myth. My breeder calls it junk in the trunk.

Before I had any other bucks, Elmo, the broken black, was my only herd sire. He had scattered white hairs, and bred to 4 or 5 does, with the 75 plus kits I had last season, I have never had this problem. It wasn't until I bought the Otter doe in Nov., that I had this problem.

I have a new litter from her, different sire, and the bottoms of the hair on the toes is white, pure bright white. I will probably cull her and everything out of her.

ottersatin · May 5, 2013

I will probably cull her and everything out of her.

Don't do it Sky,
you will be4 tossing out the baby with the bath-water.

I sold a Blue Doe to a Judge/Registrar even though I did not want to,
because it had a White spot. She insisted that she wanted it
and it was not a problem. She used that doe and produced many kits
without a trace of white.
Ottersatin.

ldtimer:

Peach · May 5, 2013

I don't think you should cull them all.

I do know that it's not uncommon to hear of rex people breeding their solid blacks with just a few white hairs to the brokens. So I don't think the broken gene is the problem. I think it's the breeding behind the broken that might be causing the problem. They can be used as a cover up.

Blacks will have scattered whites regardless and that doesn't sound like an excessive amount. I would probably cull those with the amount amount of strays. I also notice sometimes whites come with shedding/age. Like my hair lol I'm 20 and I'm starting to see a few greys sprout up. I think if you are dark haired, it's bound to happen!

It's good to check under their neck for any white spots.We have a judge that will pull back the dewlaps and the heads of rabbits to make sure one isn't hiding there!

I had a junior like that one...normal on the top.....scattered whites all within the dewlap area. now that was excessive!

skysthelimit · May 6, 2013

ottersatin":1ckren01 said:
I will probably cull her and everything out of her.

Don't do it Sky,
you will be4 tossing out the baby with the bath-water.

I sold a Blue Doe to a Judge/Registrar even though I did not want to,
because it had a White spot. She insisted that she wanted it
and it was not a problem. She used that doe and produced many kits
without a trace of white.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

These kits from both litters, two different sires, had/have solid white toes, across the top and bottom and white chin marks. The two in question just have scattered clusters of hair on the back and ears. So far, she had not produced anything extraordinary enough for me to keep a doe that I cull 9 of nine kits from.

white-toe-nail-t11899.html?hilit=%20white%20toes

__________ Mon May 06, 2013 10:33 am __________

Peach":1ckren01 said:
Blacks will have scattered whites regardless and that doesn't sound like an excessive amount. I would probably cull those with the amount amount of strays. I also notice sometimes whites come with shedding/age.

I've never had a black with any white hair before introducing the Otter doe, and there are no brokens in her pedigree for 5 generations. With white marks as DQ's I just see no reason to perpetuate the problem. Perhaps one in a litter or every other litter, but with whole litters with white hairs/toes, there is definitely a problem if you are trying to raise show quality stock. I get 2 showable kits out of a litter of 10, don't want anything that's going to lessen the chances of showable kits.

Peach · May 6, 2013

If it's white toe nail, I'd cull but of it's like a random white hair here and there and has stellar type, i wouldn't cull it. I have yet to see a perfect black mini lop even with the top ones. There is usually atleast one stray. I have a buck now that only has two or three white hairs and that about it. Not a substantial amount to make me worried. Also white hair can come from injury

phillinley · May 6, 2013

Peach":b0pifn92 said:
I have yet to see a perfect black mini lop even with the top ones. There is usually atleast one stray.

I've yet to see a Flemish black without at least a couple scattered whites as well and I've been actively looking

tailwagging · May 6, 2013

if their hair is pulled out they sometimes grow back in white. if they have been scratched you again may get white hairs. most show people pull them out with tweezers right before the show

skysthelimit · May 6, 2013

I guess I am just not seeing this, and that's why I find it a problem. I currently have three solid back rabbits and two otters currently, with 15-20 total black/black otter kits, and not a single stray black hair, except for kits from that doe. I don't pluck white hairs off of my rabbits. They just don't have any.

MamaSheepdog · May 7, 2013

tailwagging":1kxsx1ox said:
most show people pull them out with tweezers right before the show

I can't bring myself to do that. It is cheating in my book.

Well, I guess maybe I will be a bit more lenient with the culling for white hairs and breed the best I get from this point forward.

I have one doe, "Magma", who is substantially underweight (6lbs 6oz soaking wet), but she has excellent fur quality and no white hairs. She was from the first problematic litter from one of my foundation does who simply wasn't producing milk, and was one of two that I managed to save from the litter. Perhaps that is why she is stunted.

She is currently bred to a blue. Her only prior litter was to a Lionhead buck for my "Leonis Rex" project, and she raised 8.

I almost culled her because of her small size, but decided to give her a chance with a pure Rex litter and see what happens.

tailwagging · May 7, 2013

MamaSheepdog":2stb24tj said:
tailwagging":2stb24tj said:

most show people pull them out with tweezers right before the show

Click to expand...

I can't bring myself to do that. It is cheating in my book.

Do you show much?

why would you consider it cheating if it is there by injury, not by genes?

MamaSheepdog · May 7, 2013

I've been to maybe a half dozen shows. My SWHairs are not from injury. Just a few single hairs within the coat.

skysthelimit · May 7, 2013

MamaSheepdog":1roms10f said:
I've been to maybe a half dozen shows. My SWHairs are not from injury. Just a few single hairs within the coat.

Nor mine, I pull the nest boxes, so most of the time they are with me, and I go over those kits pretty much every day. If I had not been so rushed the last two days before the show, I would have noticed the white hairs in the molt, and neither would have gone to the show.

Prisma · May 7, 2013

Even if people pull hairs, its wrong and should not be done...poor ethics and morals. False representing a rabbit to sell or show is not right...been victim of it and do not promote such things.

Now with the white hairs and nails, noticed said there has been brokens bred in and with. Are you sure that those with white hairs and nails are not overly marked brokens? Its not impossible, depending on the parent. It doesn't take a whole lot of white for one to be genetically a broken, even if it doesn't look like it. I can remember few years back a friend was breeding silver martin colored meat mutts, idea was for solids and not brokens. Every now and then she'd end up with a broken kid out of what looked to be "solid" parents. One of them was just a really really poor broken, never did figure out which for sure. She didn't care much as she was breeding for her own purposes though, just had a neat color that sold for pets some times if they didn't go to be food first.

tailwagging · May 7, 2013

so you are saying that you would throw out any truly typie animal for scattered individually placed white hairs that could have been from another kits playing to hard or a mother cleaning it too ruffly at birth? and isn't scattered white hairs just a fault (reasons being what I posted, something a breeder can't help)

phillinley · May 7, 2013

tailwagging":36obeyxg said:
and isn't scattered white hairs just a fault

I only know about it in our breed of blue and black flemish giants and scattered white hairs are just a fault in that breed.

skysthelimit · May 7, 2013

Perhaps for MSD, but there have been no brokens on this ped for four generations.

White hairs is a DQ for a solid Rex, I had two perfectly good animals thrown off the table for a white hair that amounted to the size of a pin head. I don't breed DQ for any reason, if it has a DQ it is not a perfectly good rabbit. That is probaly how this genetic mess got passed on to begin with, keeping a seeming good animal with a DQ. I have plenty of rabbits to chose from, and I certainly won't breed a doe that produced a litter of 9 with white hairs in places they should not have been.

tailwagging · May 7, 2013

unless they have changed the standards individual scattered white hairs is a fault. excessive white hairs is a DQ. excessive being the key word.
each judge makes up their own mind. some say 6 hairs together in one spot other say more.

http://www.flashcardmachine.com/rabbit-standardrex.html

WallTenter · Jul 4, 2013

Also make sure you are being very gentle with the rabbits. If you bruise the skin (very easy to do) it will often grow stray white hairs in that area. As far as the tail - that may have been overcleaning by the mother in the nest box or could be genetic.

Rexisbest · Jul 5, 2013

I hate scattered whites, we have on black buck with scattered whites and he only gets bred to Charlie's because he threw scattered whites. He is way too nice of a buck to cull, killer body and fur. Judges have faulted him for his scattered but never DQ'd him...he has 2 BOSB and at least 5 legs. I believe it is genetic and won't breed to anything other than Charlie and people who buy every one of his offspring are told he has scattered white. Although, it only shows up on his black kits.....he had two chocolates with no white.

Scattered White Hairs?

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