Doe not receptive

Robochelle · Sep 19, 2024

RabbitsOfTheCreek said:
You could try moving them to a different corner after cleaning them out

I'll add to this: bleach it also. If you have a way to destroy the smell, then when you put it back in a different spot it won't smell like it used to be a litter box. If she nested at all, you can add in any fur/nesting material she used (that wasn't covered with pee), to make it smell like her, but not like toilet.

As for used as a litter box, I've experienced different levels of that. One is a true definition of it which is urine and all poop ends up in that spot; she won't nest in that, but sometimes makes the nest using the outside wall, in the space next to it. In that case, once kits are born you can dump and bleach the 'litterbox' and put the outside nest in it; move it to where the nest was, and she will accept it.

If she only poops in the box , and it isn't all of her poop, and it is only at the one outside edge, she may still make the nest in it-- and she will not break the habit of pooping there, and the kits are less healthy for it. I had to change the nest to a box of a different shape, keep her 'litterbox' in so she didnt poop in the relocated nest, and they still didn't fare well. She did do better on her next Kindle though.

R Buns · Sep 19, 2024

RabbitsOfTheCreek said:
You could try moving them to a different corner after cleaning them out

I will do that! Thanks!

R Buns · Sep 19, 2024

Robochelle said:
I'll add to this: bleach it also. If you have a way to destroy the smell, then when you put it back in a different spot it won't smell like it used to be a litter box. If she nested at all, you can add in any fur/nesting material she used (that wasn't covered with pee), to make it smell like her, but not like toilet.

As for used as a litter box, I've experienced different levels of that. One is a true definition of it which is urine and all poop ends up in that spot; she won't nest in that, but sometimes makes the nest using the outside wall, in the space next to it. In that case, once kits are born you can dump and bleach the 'litterbox' and put the outside nest in it; move it to where the nest was, and she will accept it.

If she only poops in the box , and it isn't all of her poop, and it is only at the one outside edge, she may still make the nest in it-- and she will not break the habit of pooping there, and the kits are less healthy for it. I had to change the nest to a box of a different shape, keep her 'litterbox' in so she didnt poop in the relocated nest, and they still didn't fare well. She did do better on her next Kindle though.

Thank you. Very good information

tambayo · Sep 20, 2024

When it comes to neutralizing scent i prefer vinegar to bleach. Standard white vinegar for cooking is safe around bunnies.

Alaska Satin · Sep 20, 2024

Robochelle said:
I'll add to this: bleach it also. If you have a way to destroy the smell, then when you put it back in a different spot it won't smell like it used to be a litter box. If she nested at all, you can add in any fur/nesting material she used (that wasn't covered with pee), to make it smell like her, but not like toilet.

As for used as a litter box, I've experienced different levels of that. One is a true definition of it which is urine and all poop ends up in that spot; she won't nest in that, but sometimes makes the nest using the outside wall, in the space next to it. In that case, once kits are born you can dump and bleach the 'litterbox' and put the outside nest in it; move it to where the nest was, and she will accept it.

If she only poops in the box , and it isn't all of her poop, and it is only at the one outside edge, she may still make the nest in it-- and she will not break the habit of pooping there, and the kits are less healthy for it. I had to change the nest to a box of a different shape, keep her 'litterbox' in so she didnt poop in the relocated nest, and they still didn't fare well. She did do better on her next Kindle though.

I don't bleach fouled nest boxes before moving them, and it doesn't seem to have been a problem; once I move the cleaned-out box to a different spot, the doe usually quits using it as a litter box. Personally, I haven't seen any evidence that the smell of urine encourages them to use that spot - that surely would be convenient for litter-training, but it's never worked that way for me. My does seem to pick a spot in their cage to relieve themselves, and if the box is inadvertently placed there, they'll use it for that. The smell of the kits' urine is in the box nearly from the day they're born, anyway.

However, I have had bleach apparently deter does from using the box again, so I skip the bleach now. (Plus, I don't know for sure that it's a real risk, but it makes me nervous to use bleach where it might combine with ammonia from urine to produce toxic chloramine fumes.) My boxes are wooden, and I clean them by scraping and scrubbing, and then set the box in the sunshine (if available!) for natural deodorizing and sterilization. UV kills!

I have had box-sitter does who don't pee in their boxes, but consistently leave a pile of poo in the front part of their boxes where they hang out. It offends my aesthetic sensibilities, but honestly it never seemed to cause any harm to the bunnies in the nest. In fact I've seen the kits crawling up and eating it, and I figure it's just priming their little guts with the doe's microfauna.

R Buns · Sep 20, 2024

tambayo said:
When it comes to neutralizing scent i prefer vinegar to bleach. Standard white vinegar for cooking is safe around bunnies.

We have lots of that! Thanks!

R Buns · Sep 20, 2024

Well both does are open. My thinking is the buck was still heat sterile. My better half and I were discussing options tonight. We are leaning towards cutting our losses and processing the trio and replacing them but it's not set yet. I did treat this doe with ivermectin for the ear mites so I'm guessing I can't even try and breed her back for a bit putting us even farther behind. At what point are these two does getting too old to even make it worth while trying?

Alaska Satin · Sep 20, 2024

R Buns said:
Well both does are open. My thinking is the buck was still heat sterile. My better half and I were discussing options tonight. We are leaning towards cutting our losses and processing the trio and replacing them but it's not set yet. I did treat this doe with ivermectin for the ear mites so I'm guessing I can't even try and breed her back for a bit putting us even farther behind. At what point are these two does getting too old to even make it worth while trying?

That's disappointing.

If it was me, I wouldn't have any worries about re-breeding her after dosing. Ivermectin has a pretty solid safety record. I've used it a few times over the years without incident (for fur mites that were resistant to all the natural remedies I tried). I don't like to use medication unless it's needed, but in this case I'd agree it is.

I doubt you're out of time yet. My does keep producing into their third and fourth years, sometimes longer than that. If a doe hasn't had a litter at all by the age of 2, I start to feel a bit nervous, but I do know at least a couple of does which were bred for the first time at over 2 years old (a Mini Lop and a Polish), and both of them did just fine.

olhippityhop · Sep 21, 2024

I had a difficult doe that would refuse to lift. I had to hold her while my buck did his thing. I did get a few successful litters from her, doing this. I moved her out of my rabbitry and life is a lot more peaceful. I kept one of her sons and he's mellow and doesn't give me any trouble. If you can hang in there and get a litter from each doe, their offspring may perform well for you. From my (somewhat short) experience, the rabbits that grew up with me don't give me any trouble. If there are ill tempered offspring in the bunch, they get turned into dinner so that behavior gets weeded out.

This is what I did for my difficult doe:

I wear these when I'm handing a rabbit I know will scratch me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099NLB3D6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 they're a little tight for me but they are cheap and I don't get scratched anymore.

R Buns · Sep 21, 2024

Alaska Satin said:
That's disappointing.

If it was me, I wouldn't have any worries about re-breeding her after dosing. Ivermectin has a pretty solid safety record. I've used it a few times over the years without incident (for fur mites that were resistant to all the natural remedies I tried). I don't like to use medication unless it's needed, but in this case I'd agree it is.

I doubt you're out of time yet. My does keep producing into their third and fourth years, sometimes longer than that. If a doe hasn't had a litter at all by the age of 2, I start to feel a bit nervous, but I do know at least a couple of does which were bred for the first time at over 2 years old (a Mini Lop and a Polish), and both of them did just fine.

I am disappointed but honestly not surprised at this point. However I am surprised the doe that because quite cranky almost a week after breeding isn't bred. That seems odd. Now she just makes grumpy noises at everyone. I put her in with the buck a few minutes ago after reading this and she was making grumpy noises at him (well first when I went to get her out) but did lift twice but no more after that. She just hunkered down making noises at him after that. Got quite upset with me for putting her back in her cage too. Her whole personality shifted almost a week post breeding the first try. She's not gotten better.
This puts both my worries at ease. I'm going to give them another breeding chance. I would really like to at least recoup the purchase costs. Thank you so much!

R Buns · Sep 21, 2024

olhippityhop said:
I had a difficult doe that would refuse to lift. I had to hold her while my buck did his thing. I did get a few successful litters from her, doing this. I moved her out of my rabbitry and life is a lot more peaceful. I kept one of her sons and he's mellow and doesn't give me any trouble. If you can hang in there and get a litter from each doe, their offspring may perform well for you. From my (somewhat short) experience, the rabbits that grew up with me don't give me any trouble. If there are ill tempered offspring in the bunch, they get turned into dinner so that behavior gets weeded out.

This is what I did for my difficult doe:

I wear these when I'm handing a rabbit I know will scratch me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099NLB3D6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 they're a little tight for me but they are cheap and I don't get scratched anymore.

This video is very helpful. Not sure I can do that in the hutch but I'll try this. That isn't quite how I did it last time. I can not handle these does like this gal is. Certainly no way I could put them on a table like that and them not try and take off and go a bit wild. Hard enough in their cages. This video is how I remember our breeding stock being as a youngin. I truly feel like these rabbit's just haven't been handled. I may be completely wrong but that's the conclusion I'm coming up with. Plus I was trying not to get bit by her. She hasn't bit yet but after the 1st buck and her temperament since her arrival I'm way more cautious at the moment. I may need more practice which is something I never thought I'd say.

The plan when things turned into a stress was to keep nice offspring to raise as replacements but I'm wondering if we will make it that far at this point. The life would be more peaceful I am looking forward to. I think that's why I am ready to replace them vs carrying on. While this whole deal isn't the end of the world it's been quite an expense and a lot of care/work for nothing to show for it at this point. Well other than a bite and some decent scratches. Thank you so much for this item link. I am buying them tonight. I've been roasting wearing thick sweatshirts and gloves to protect myself. Won't be so bad in winter but it's been pretty yucky in the heat. I had no idea these even existed. I'll be getting a few pairs as they will be quite useful when doing trap neuter release work. Thank you

R Buns · Oct 26, 2024

Update on this thread:
This doe now has a beautiful litter. She's being a good mom so far. She has done great and everything was right on time. Surprisingly the other doe who was fine to breed did not get pregnant. She was bred first. Will try one more time then cull her. Wondering if the buck had to clear out heat sterility and then bred the second doe and was successful. I am not sure how the heat fertility works yet. Not going to cull doe 2 without a second chance. Technically 3 breedings but neither doe took the first breeding so I am not holding that against them. I do believe that was due to the heat.
Thank you to everyone for helping and supporting us in this journey. Really grateful for the great folks on this forum.

R Buns · Nov 13, 2024

Holy smokes. Now I have to rename this doe now. Her barn name isn't fair now. It had changed from Witchy to Cruella.

She's just as content as possible now. Lets me pet her. Comes right up for food instead of standing in the back warning me. No stomping or grumbling at me at all anymore. She's raising a whopper of a litter so far. I was skeptical of the heads up she could change after she's had a litter but by golly y'all were right yet again!
Another couple of question if I may. When do y'all breed back? She kindled 3 1/2 weeks ago now. I've seen everything from 2 weeks post kindling to post weaning of the kits. I'd like to get the open doe bred back as soon as possible so I know if she's going to freezer camp or not before I process all the kits but I don't want to breed the does separately.
At what age should I be shooting for to process the litter for the freezer and eating fresh?

Alaska Satin · Nov 13, 2024

R Buns said:
Holy smokes. Now I have to rename this doe now. Her barn name isn't fair now. It had changed from Witchy to Cruella. She's just as content as possible now. Lets me pet her. Comes right up for food instead of standing in the back warning me. No stomping or grumbling at me at all anymore. She's raising a whopper of a litter so far. I was skeptical of the heads up she could change after she's had a litter but by golly y'all were right yet again!
Another couple of question if I may. When do y'all breed back? She kindled 3 1/2 weeks ago now. I've seen everything from 2 weeks post kindling to post weaning of the kits. I'd like to get the open doe bred back as soon as possible so I know if she's going to freezer camp or not before I process all the kits but I don't want to breed the does separately.
At what age should I be shooting for to process the litter for the freezer and eating fresh?

That's great news!!! She was probably just so miserable with that nasty mite load that she couldn't help having an attitude. And, I have noticed that very often when a rabbit needs and is given TLC, they end up pretty sweet, even if the TLC includes things that are uncomfortable. I won't go so far as saying they're "grateful" like a human can be, but it surely looks that way sometimes.

I re-breed my does two weeks before weaning their current litter, so it usually ranges from 5-8 weeks after kindling (weaning at 7-10 weeks). In my herd, a 2-week break between weaning one litter and kindling the next is ideal. I find that if I wait much longer than that, the doe sometimes is harder to get bred again.

R Buns · Nov 15, 2024

Alaska Satin said:
That's great news!!! She was probably just so miserable with that nasty mite load that she couldn't help having an attitude. And, I have noticed that very often when a rabbit needs and is given TLC, they end up pretty sweet, even if the TLC includes things that are uncomfortable. I won't go so far as saying they're "grateful" like a human can be, but it surely looks that way sometimes.

I re-breed my does two weeks before weaning their current litter, so it usually ranges from 5-8 weeks after kindling (weaning at 7-10 weeks). In my herd, a 2-week break between weaning one litter and kindling the next is ideal. I find that if I wait much longer than that, the doe sometimes is harder to get bred again.

I think you nailed it with her. She does almost seem grateful. I'm glad she's able to be happy now. Feel bad it took me that long to get it all figured out and cleared up. This forum and people are such a wonder resource.
That's great. I'll get that on the calendar. That's only about 2 weeks out which will be perfect timing schedule wise. The issue of harder to breed back was one I was wondering about. Thanks for that information!

R Buns · Nov 20, 2024

Well it's time to breed this doe back and she's completely non receptive again. She barely was when she finally got bred last time. I don't know what to do with her. If I try and help hold her up a bit the buck doesn't want to do his business. She couldn't tuck into a ball any more when she's in with him. She does everything she can to hide. I don't feel like this is good for her and am at a loss as to how to proceed. Now she's back to not trusting me. We've tried twice in the last two days. I can't swap cages because she has her litter with her still (she's on the top cage of the stack) so I swapped litter trays so she would get his smell all night. Didn't make a difference. Am I doomed to cull her after a single litter? The other doe bred just fine. Hopefully this time she took. I'm hesitant at this point to get anymore Tamuk's. Especially because I've only seen them from one breeder in a reasonable amount of distance away. May look at New Zealands again. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to get a couple more litters from her to pay for all her expenses.
Thanks

Alaska Satin · Nov 20, 2024

R Buns said:
Well it's time to breed this doe back and she's completely non receptive again. She barely was when she finally got bred last time. I don't know what to do with her. If I try and help hold her up a bit the buck doesn't want to do his business. She couldn't tuck into a ball any more when she's in with him. She does everything she can to hide. I don't feel like this is good for her and am at a loss as to how to proceed. Now she's back to not trusting me. We've tried twice in the last two days. I can't swap cages because she has her litter with her still (she's on the top cage of the stack) so I swapped litter trays so she would get his smell all night. Didn't make a difference. Am I doomed to cull her after a single litter? The other doe bred just fine. Hopefully this time she took. I'm hesitant at this point to get anymore Tamuk's. Especially because I've only seen them from one breeder in a reasonable amount of distance away. May look at New Zealands again. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to get a couple more litters from her to pay for all her expenses.
Thanks

It may be that she's just at a hormonal low at the moment (and this is the time of year that many rabbits' interest in breeding starts to wane, anyway). Does don't exactly go into heat, but they do have cycles during which they're more or less receptive to a buck's attention. If she's willing to let you handle her now, check her vent. At the low point in her cycle, her vent will look very pale. It will begin to get darker pink as she gets closer to receptivity. When it's such deep pink it looks purple and swollen, she's beginning to go out the other side of things (but will probably still be willing to be bred).

I'd give her a break for a few days, check her vent, and try again when you see the color changing. If her vent persists in a pale state for more than a week, you might suspect there is something wrong with her health. She's had a rough go of it in the last few months and there might be some lingering difficulties. Giving her some fresh greens every day might be helpful, just to pump her up and make her feel spring-y.

I don't know what the weather conditions are where you live, but if you still have grass showing outside, you might try putting her and the buck out in a play pen. I'd put the buck in first, to let him get comfortable, or else he may ignore the doe to explore. I'd still wait a few days to try this, since her sitting with her butt clamped down is a very clear indication that she's not ready right now.

How old are her kits, and are the bunnies chasing and mounting her? Sometimes when my does are being relentlessly pursued by older offspring that need to be weaned (even doe offspring), they'll reject all suitors. It can take giving them their own space to bring them back to the job.

The other thing you can try is getting her hot and bothered.

A trick some of us use to encourage droopy does to breed is to take them on a car ride in a carrier. Going to a show, where the does sit in a warm room all day surrounded by other rabbits, often works, too.

tambayo · Nov 20, 2024

Some does just won't breed when they still have a litter with them. May be hormonal balance, may be a anti incest reflex? So they're not bred by their own son(s).

Here the schedule i got for breeding timing was 1st at 6 months (dwarf breed, for standard add 2-3 months ), 2nd at 12 (or 14/15) months, 3rd at 18 (or 20/21) months and then on every 4 months untill 3 years and retirement (if needed). Keeps them healthy and productive without exhausting them. This american thing of running things at max. factory production doesn't sit well with me. Also i want healthy animals and that also means give the doe time to replenish reserves of minerals and such to build good kits with. Both for breeding stock and food. Healthy food takes time, absorbing minerals and such to surplus is a slow process. Also on a slower schedule you can very well have productive does up to 5+, means you can see what your breeding choices do 2-3 generations on and fall back on grandma if it didn't work right.

R Buns · Nov 20, 2024

Alaska Satin said:
It may be that she's just at a hormonal low at the moment (and this is the time of year that many rabbits' interest in breeding starts to wane, anyway). Does don't exactly go into heat, but they do have cycles during which they're more or less receptive to a buck's attention. If she's willing to let you handle her now, check her vent. At the low point in her cycle, her vent will look very pale. It will begin to get darker pink as she gets closer to receptivity. When it's such deep pink it looks purple and swollen, she's beginning to go out the other side of things (but will probably still be willing to be bred).

I'd give her a break for a few days, check her vent, and try again when you see the color changing. If her vent persists in a pale state for more than a week, you might suspect there is something wrong with her health. She's had a rough go of it in the last few months and there might be some lingering difficulties. Giving her some fresh greens every day might be helpful, just to pump her up and make her feel spring-y.

I don't know what the weather conditions are where you live, but if you still have grass showing outside, you might try putting her and the buck out in a play pen. I'd put the buck in first, to let him get comfortable, or else he may ignore the doe to explore. I'd still wait a few days to try this, since her sitting with her butt clamped down is a very clear indication that she's not ready right now.

How old are her kits, and are the bunnies chasing and mounting her? Sometimes when my does are being relentlessly pursued by older offspring that need to be weaned (even doe offspring), they'll reject all suitors. It can take giving them their own space to bring them back to the job.

The other thing you can try is getting her hot and bothered. A trick some of us use to encourage droopy does to breed is to take them on a car ride in a carrier. Going to a show, where the does sit in a warm room all day surrounded by other rabbits, often works, too.

Vent checked. It's pink but I wouldn't say dark pink yet. I'll be keeping an eye on that though. I can give her greens. Have a fresh batch growing right now and some still in the garden.
I'd love to try giving them outside access. Unfortunately we have so many wild bunnies I hesitate to do that because of disease transmission.
I haven't seen any mounting from her kits yet. They are 5 weeks old. Was going for weaning them at 6 weeks giving her a few weeks off before the next litter. I'll still move forward with weaning at 6 weeks either way.
I had no idea a car ride could work on rabbits. We use that trick on hogs.

Thank you for the tips. Seems no matter how I do this I can't get the two does bred together.

R Buns · Nov 20, 2024

tambayo said:
Some does just won't breed when they still have a litter with them. May be hormonal balance, may be a anti incest reflex? So they're not bred by their own son(s).

Here the schedule i got for breeding timing was 1st at 6 months (dwarf breed, for standard add 2-3 months ), 2nd at 12 (or 14/15) months, 3rd at 18 (or 20/21) months and then on every 4 months untill 3 years and retirement (if needed). Keeps them healthy and productive without exhausting them. This american thing of running things at max. factory production doesn't sit well with me. Also i want healthy animals and that also means give the doe time to replenish reserves of minerals and such to build good kits with. Both for breeding stock and food. Healthy food takes time, absorbing minerals and such to surplus is a slow process. Also on a slower schedule you can very well have productive does up to 5+, means you can see what your breeding choices do 2-3 generations on and fall back on grandma if it didn't work right.

Very interesting. I hadn't heard of this before now. So you don't have issues with too much fat collecting on their repro and not breeding back? Everything I've read says if you don't get them bred back in a timely manner you have increased issues with rebreeding problems.

Doe not receptive

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