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eco2pia said:

In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.

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eco2pia said:

In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.

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Alaska Satin said:

This is one of the most outstanding responses I've ever seen!

I couldn't agree more with the roof. The more pleasant/less miserable it is to be near the rabbits, the more time you'll want to spend with them. Where I live, we not only have significant amounts of rain but also lots of snow, and a roof (and lights - we have a long dark) has made it S-O-O-O much nicer to do rabbit chores!

With so much of my year in the freezing zone, I can't use an automatic system without significant expense , but catching or at least diverting rainwater away from the rabbitry is pretty important. A key to keeping flies and smell down (and again, keeping it pleasant to walk around) is to keep things dry under the cages. Not only would the roof help with that, but a catchment system would too. I think @eco2pia has an enviable system. If you don't catch the rainwater, be sure to think about angling the roof and having gutters so that the water is directed away from the rabbitry. We had to dig small channels to keep water from soaking under the cages in our last place.

I don't know about NC, but $560 for a 16 hole addition sounds pretty good to me. Just buying the lumber for the stands would get to or pass that amount here. And most of the work is already done, so if you value your time, there's that.

As to adding another breed... if you can resist the temptation, I'll be impressed. Rabbit math, ya know? I am biased and love my Satins, but Champagne D'Argents, Californians, American Sables, American Chinchillas, Silver Martens, and Rex are tops on my list, too. (Lots of Silver Fox for meat around these days, too, but I'm not partial to their coat type. I like sleek. ) Satins and Rex, and to a lesser degree Silver Martens, will give you the most color variety, as Champagnes, Cals, Sable and Chins are each a single color. That can be advantageous, though, if you're raising rabbits to sell to 4H or FFAers for meat pens.

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Her Farmstead Rabbitry said:

Thank you, I am not a huge fan of one color breeds, I like a little surprise so it doesn't get boring. Although I do like Silver fox ( creme/ champange d argent. There are not many satins or cremes or champages around here, so if I could get some do you think I would have a hard time selling them?

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Alaska Satin said:

I wouldn't know how to predict sales opportunities in your area. Sometimes a novelty sells well for a while, but then interest peters out when it's no longer a novelty; other times, the new thing has real merits, and has staying power as the word gets out. But I can tell you that if you get a reputation for breeding high-quality rabbits of any breed, people will probably start to seek you out. ("Quality" includes meat type, growth rates, mothering abilities, health and temperament. Keeping pedigrees is another plus, but it's not critical to get pedigreed stock.) Most folks looking for meat rabbits usually start out wanting Cals or NZs, but if I can get some of our Satins into their hands, they usually come around. Not only is Satin fur something you have to see and feel to believe, but our Satins are both gentle and competitive (i.e. very good meat type). It's a combination a lot of people come to appreciate.

So my first suggestion would be to go with whichever breed you find has the highest quality meat characteristics (but don't forget temperament).

I'm afraid that will probably rule out Creme D'Argents. There are not many people breeding them and in my experience they do not tend to be at all competitive in terms of type. My daughter and I spent a fair amount of time looking around with the thought of bringing some up here to AK, but there were none I was willing to spend any money on (and the breeders wanted a lot of money). We decided we'd make some ourselves out of Champagnes, which are more common and as a result have much better type. Champagnes still are not winning a ton of Best in Shows, but IMO they're a much better meat prospect than the Cremes. Many of our Champagnes have tremendous growth rates as well. They do vary a lot more than our Satins in that regard, but I've been breeding the Satins with pretty tight criteria for a long time.

Satin (12 varieties) and Rex (16) offer the most recognized colors in the meat breeds, which can be helpful in sales. NZs are recognized in 5 varieties, but some of those don't play well together (red and blue, for instance).

Another consideration is choosing a breed that is compatible with/complementary to what you are already working with. I don't know which breed you have currently, but if your line has a weak spot (shoulders, loin, depth, size, etc) you might choose a breed that offers some improvement there. I have done a bit of crossbreeding to improve several breeds (Cals x Satins, Satins x Champagnes, and Polish x Mini Satins). It only takes 3-4 generations to get back to pedigreed rabbits. Satin coats and Champagne silvering are mutations that are fairly easy to recover, but I have found that in outcrossing Rex, it takes a lot longer to recover a good quality rex coat.

In adding another breed, you'll end up with more experience with different breeds and colors, and a wider base of rabbit knowledge. However many breeds you have, the main thing is to cull hard for the characteristics you want, because you get what you breed.

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Her Farmstead Rabbitry said:

I got to say this is also one of the most outstanding posts!. I am thinking satins or a larger lop. Did you end up making the cremes?

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eco2pia said:

In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.

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brittanyf said:

Can I ask a couple questions? We are planning our water system. I want to feed from a rain barrel because our water bill base is already expensive. I understand that you use it to water other animals but do you have an idea how muxh water they drink? I'm in nc and according to Google we get 2‐4 inches of rain a month. Do you have tops on your rain barrels? Currently we do not. We have bettas in 2 as a test. I wondering if we need to buy a new container with a lid to prevent algae. I see that some people use a 5 gallon bucket but I'm wondering if it's easier or how often it would need to be filled. We are planning to start with 2 or 3 does and a buck. I'm just really wondering how much water to expect them to drink and whether or 55 Gallon drum would be take too long to drink and become nasty we do plan to upgrade to at least 5 does and 2 bucks with litters frequently.

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eco2pia said:

Ok. That's a lot of questions.

My cages would go through a 32oz water bottle in a day or two--moms with kits got 2 or 3 bottles. I always wanted to be sure I had a little extra, so it is probably closer to 20oz/day for a 10lb rabbit.

I have a 50gallon barrel hooked to my roof, and almost all of the barrel is above the waterline--so I had to build a mini water tower. During the summer here it is pretty dry, and I have to fill the barrel about 1x/month if there is no rain at all, but I only have 4-8 adult rabbits at a time normally. Summer is when I have litters though!

I have 2 other barrels hooked to the first as overflow, I have changed the connections so that those other two now feed only the birds, allowing the whole 50 gallons to feed only rabbits. My roof area is about 16x8, or 128sqft, or 18,432 square inches. A 50 gallon barrel is 11550 cubic inches, so just over 1/2 inch of rain will completely fill the barrel. This is why I have 3 barrels and they all overflow into a series of stock tanks for my ducks--in winter it is almost constantly running over. With rain all summer, you would likely never need to fill if you have enough barrels/square feet.

Now about algae: I have blue barrels, and blue water lines. The barrels have tops with a small screened hole to let the gutter water in. there is no algae, nor mosquitos. NONE. We do have a type of bacteria here that is pinky brown. It grows in showers, puddles, everywhere, it is just endemic. It is harmless, sticks to the sides of the tank, and doesn't change the taste or clarity of the water or cause problems with water quality. I would drink from these barrels--maybe not lick the scuzzy side, but you get my point. You could cover your current barrels with plywood if you like, the idea is just to have it be dark. It would rot eventually tho.

I do get fir needles in gutters sometimes, and have to clear the gutters and screen every now and then. The pink bacteria can build up and then break off (usually after a freeze) and clog water lines, which can be deadly. Get in the habit of flipping the water nipple to be sure it is flowing on each cage every time you feed. I assume lines will be clogged after a freeze now, and I just blow them out--be sure you remember to put in a shut off valve right at the barrel so that you can work on your system without emptying
Algae comes from nutrients and light (and water!). You get rid of one of those things and there won't be any algae. My stock tanks are green however, and have fish in them to take care of mosquitos. I favor feeder goldfish, they are cheap and can survive my winters. In NC you have more options.

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