My breeding schedule - look ok?

bunnygal · Jan 4, 2012

Mary Ann's Rabbitry":2gnmjp1s said:
Thanks again lisa. YOu dont feed any hay at all. None to the babies. You are not to worry on the little ones getting the runny poops.Is the apple cider do that for you. ?Do you give cider vinegar to all of your rabbits?IF so, how much?

Nope - no hay at all. I often hear people say that little one will get enteritis without hay, but i've been at this over 30 years, have never fed hay and have never had any kits have a problem. Mom begins to feed kits cecotropes long before the kits would be old enough to eat hay and those cecotropes contain all the beneficial bacteria and enzymes to develop proper gut flora. Hay cant do what cecotropes do. Yes, I give all my rabbits vinegar. Not just any vinegar, it has to be organic, raw, unfiltered, unpasturized, apple cider vinegar WITH MOTHER. The "mother" is a layer at the bottom of the bottle that is chock full of healthy prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes. It increases fertility in does and bucks, increases appetites in kits and does a good job on avoiding hind-gut problems.

Mary Ann's Rabbitry · Jan 4, 2012

How much do you use. Lets say in a gallon of water .How much of the vineger will you put in. ?

bunnygal · Jan 5, 2012

Mary Ann's Rabbitry":1zb7pqx5 said:
How much do you use. Lets say in a gallon of water .How much of the vineger will you put in. ?

I use 2 tablespoons per gallon. The general recommendation is 1 tbsp. but I found 2 works better. You should start with 1 tbsp. per gallon to get them used to the taste of it.

ottersatin · Jan 5, 2012

Lisa L,
you have some great ideas and as you state
they work for you. My belief is:
that there is more than one way to skin a Cat/Rabbit!
I feed grass-hay on a regular basis and it works for me. [Since 1989]
I do not insist that everyone nor even anyone do the same.
I just mention it as a fact of something that works
and continues to work for me. We all must try a bit of
experimentation until we find what works best for us
and our herd. Wishing continued success with whatever direction
one chooses to take.
Ottersatin.

ldtimer:

Mary Ann's Rabbitry · Jan 5, 2012

ottersatin":38p3sixz said:
Lisa L,
you have some great ideas and as you state
they work for you. My belief is:
that there is more than one way to skin a Cat/Rabbit!
I feed grass-hay on a regular basis and it works for me. [Since 1989]
I do not insist that everyone nor even anyone do the same.
I just mention it as a fact of something that works
and continues to work for me. We all must try a bit of
experimentation until we find what works best for us
and our herd. Wishing continued success with whatever direction
one chooses to take.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

You are 100% right. I like talking to others to what they are doing . TO see if i can improve in mine. She dosnt feed hay, But i continue to do so. I believe they need as others dont. But that is up to them. I still continue in doing my breeding 10 days . So far that is what is working for me. I am thinking of 5 days that she is doing but not until later. If it is easier to breed them on day 5 . Then i will switch as i see the babies are really not to need on the mom to much after 4 weeks old. Something for me to think about. The vineger i have started this about a month ago. I will increase the dosage in about another month from now. I will start giving oatmeal flaks as i see this is a good thing also. Expecially for the babies just coming out of the nest.

bunnygal · Jan 5, 2012

ottersatin":33de38az said:
Lisa L,
you have some great ideas and as you state
they work for you. My belief is:
that there is more than one way to skin a Cat/Rabbit!
I feed grass-hay on a regular basis and it works for me. [Since 1989]
I do not insist that everyone nor even anyone do the same.
I just mention it as a fact of something that works
and continues to work for me. We all must try a bit of
experimentation until we find what works best for us
and our herd. Wishing continued success with whatever direction
one chooses to take.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

Is there anywhere within any of my posts that say my chosen method was the only way or best way??? No. I was asked to describe my process and to share my method and that's what I did. I answered follow up questions the same way.

Never once did I say this *MUST* be done or that *MUST* be avoided. I was careful in selecting words that indicated I was describing my method as it has worked for me.

It goes without saying that there are many correct ways to raise rabbits just as there are many correct ways to do anything. I shared what has worked for me, nothing more.

MamaSheepdog · Jan 5, 2012

Wow, Lisa what an amazing success story. It sounds like we should all strive to develop good "regional rabbits"! You have them so adapted to your climate- do you believe they do as well in milder, drier conditions?

I am a firm believer in the benefits of AC vinegar as well, and would love to start my herd on it. I have an automatic system myself in rigid pvc with a heat tape- I would simply have to add it to the float bucket, and figure out how much water they consume daily.

As a side note for everybody, on the subject of auto-waterers: Hubs has not yet connected the heat tape, and the pipes partially froze one night, causing several valves to develop a slow drip. When it was in the 20's here, I would find icicles hanging from those valves. The pipe has never frozen again! How's that for "blind luck"?

sommrluv · Jan 5, 2012

I love to hear about what others are doing.

Mary Ann's Rabbitry · Jan 5, 2012

sommrluv":3ekidrk8 said:
I love to hear about what others are doing.

X2

bunnygal · Jan 5, 2012

MamaSheepdog said:
I am a firm believer in the benefits of AC vinegar as well, and would love to start my herd on it. I have an automatic system myself in rigid pvc with a heat tape- I would simply have to add it to the float bucket, and figure out how much water they consume daily.
quote]

A word of warning.... (from my lesson learned) do not use ACV in an auto water system or water bottle; nothing with a valve. Crocks or bowls only. The reason being that the "mother" in the ACV is a living, growing, colony of enzymes. It's the "mother" that makes the ACV do its magic - the prebiotic and probiotic qualities are wonderful. However, small particles of it cling to everything and grow into a thick, brown, slimy coating. Kind of looks like brown slimy algae. It clogs up EVERYTHING. It will clog up every valve on an auto water system and every nozzle of a water bottle. I had a nightmare this summer with my auto water system because of it (flexible hose system - but same nozzles as ridgid pipe). Ended up having to take apart every single water valve and replace the diaphram in all of them because the coating was so thick. It also clogged up the few cages I have with water bottles.

I still have my autowater system for regular drinking water, but also added an 8 oz lock-crock to each cage where I put ACV and water daily. Its more work for sure, but nothing was more work that taking apart and rebuilding 45 water valves!

Do you have any photos of your ridgid pipe water system? I want to change over to that, but cant get a mental picture of it. I cant quite understand how you can have a long row of PVC with nozzles run across the front of a row of cages and not have that PVC pipe block the cage doors so they cant open??? If the PVC pipe is on the top of the cage, how do the rabbits drink? Where is the PVC pipe located so that it doesn't block the door but also allows rabbits to reach the nozzle. See... brain fog! Pictures or a good description would be much appreciated.
Lisa

OneAcreFarm · Jan 5, 2012

Yeah, what Lisa said....it will grow into such a disgusting brown sludge in no time at all. I did it with my bottles and it was a nightmare!

bunnygal":om9ndfr9 said:
MamaSheepdog":om9ndfr9 said:

I am a firm believer in the benefits of AC vinegar as well, and would love to start my herd on it. I have an automatic system myself in rigid pvc with a heat tape- I would simply have to add it to the float bucket, and figure out how much water they consume daily.
quote]

A word of warning.... (from my lesson learned) do not use ACV in an auto water system or water bottle; nothing with a valve. Crocks or bowls only. The reason being that the "mother" in the ACV is a living, growing, colony of enzymes. It's the "mother" that makes the ACV do its magic - the prebiotic and probiotic qualities are wonderful. However, small particles of it cling to everything and grow into a thick, brown, slimy coating. Kind of looks like brown slimy algae.
Lisa

Click to expand...

MamaSheepdog · Jan 9, 2012

bunnygal":2omxo6so said:
MamaSheepdog":2omxo6so said:

I still have my autowater system for regular drinking water, but also added an 8 oz lock-crock to each cage where I put ACV and water daily. Its more work for sure, but nothing was more work that taking apart and rebuilding 45 water valves!

Do you have any photos of your rigid pipe water system? I want to change over to that, but cant get a mental picture of it. I cant quite understand how you can have a long row of PVC with nozzles run across the front of a row of cages and not have that PVC pipe block the cage doors so they cant open??? If the PVC pipe is on the top of the cage, how do the rabbits drink? Where is the PVC pipe located so that it doesn't block the door but also allows rabbits to reach the nozzle. See... brain fog! Pictures or a good description would be much appreciated.
Lisa

Click to expand...

Thanks for the warning on the invasive nature of the "Mother"... that saved me quite a bit of unnecessary future work, I'm sure. Since they have another water source, how many ounces of the water/ACV do you offer them daily? Do they seem to self regulate, drinking more as needed?

I don't know how I lost track of this thread, but here are some pics of the rigid system:

Note the dropped water line with spigot for emptying the lines:

Shut-off valve (on rt) from main water feed from float bucket:

Valves were placed at 2" above floor. Tight squeeze for the door latch, but doable. It would probably be better to have the valves at floor level since in the wild, if a rabbit finds water, it will be at ground level unless it is in the form of dew.

Here is a view of the lines on one aisle- it's hard to get a good shot since there isn't much room.

I hope that helps somewhat- if you need better pics of something, I would happily oblige you!

Mary Ann's Rabbitry · Jan 9, 2012

Now that is different. Having the water lines on the bottom instead of the top. Is it harder for the drink from it.My lines are not hooked up yet. But i think i am going to go this root instead. I like your feeders. I have a question. How do you clean your cages.?

MamaSheepdog · Jan 9, 2012

Gosh, it never occurred to me to put the water lines at the top! They drink just fine from them- most animals lap water from a pool on the ground, so putting them low made perfect sense to me.

As to cage cleaning, there's not much to it. Every morning when I do the morning feed, I look over the floor of each cage for any clinging poo and scrape it off with a wire bristled brush- which, honestly, has rarely ever even happened.

I made a couple of scrapers for the green dropping boards which I use every morning to push hay and droppings down with. I then rake out the hay with my manure scraper and feed it to my goats. The narrow one was made so I could get around the water lines etc., and has ended up being the only one I use anymore.

The area between the sheds was a patio once, and fully paved. We removed the center tiles and put gravel over the sand base for improved drainage. I spread about an inch of pine bedding over that, sprinkled with diatomaceous earth and/or baking soda for odor control. (I use a hand crank blower to spread the powder- it is the yellow thing in the first pic in my last post.) Every week or two I use a leaf rake to remove most of the droppings and any wet bedding, put more DE/ baking soda on the wet spots and cover again with dry shavings, sprinkled with more DE. This week the oak leaves are falling, so I have been raking that into bags to use as well. I put a good layer of leaves down and covered that with shavings.

DumansArk · Jan 9, 2012

Wow!! I am behind in reading threads and first off:

Lisa: WOW! I so impressed (read: slightly envious

) of your does' schedule and your line of acclimated rabbits. Bravo!

Secondly:
I have heard of the many wonders of AC before - but where would one find the raw, unpasturized MOTHER? I can get everything from 50 gallons of molasses to 50lbs of bi sodium carbonate at my co op, but no AC.

Thirdly:
MamaSheepdog --- I love the set up! Always neat to see the different barns and their ideas.

P.S.... And I know this is totally random, but IMG_4257.JPG did anyone else spot what appears to be an egg in the cage behind the bunny? I say! It made me grin thinking of the Cadbury commercials "Buck buck buck buuuuck..."

bunnygal · Jan 9, 2012

"Valves were placed at 2" above floor. Tight squeeze for the door latch said:
http://www.vitacost.com/Bragg-Organic-R ... er-Vinegar[/url]

Lisa.<br /><br />__________ Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:27 pm __________<br /><br />

DumansArk":mdc1wkcc said:

Wow!! I am behind in reading threads and first off:

Lisa: WOW! I so impressed (read: slightly envious ) of your does' schedule and your line of acclimated rabbits. Bravo!

Secondly:
I have heard of the many wonders of AC before - but where would one find the raw, unpasturized MOTHER? I can get everything from 50 gallons of molasses to 50lbs of bi sodium carbonate at my co op, but no AC. !

Click to expand...

*****

You can get it at any health food store, but if you have more than a couple of rabbits that's not the way to go because it's outrageously priced there. I buy mine online from a store called Vitacost.com.

They sell Bragg's (the absolute BEST brand) organic, raw, unfiltered, unpasturized apple cider vinegar with mother (say that 3 times fast!) for only $4.49 for a 32 oz bottle. Health food stores charge $6-$7 for a 16 oz bottle (twice the cost for half as much).
I've been buying it from they for several years and they have never had a price increase. The good thing is that they offer free shipping on all orders over $49.00 so if you buy 11 bottles at a time, the shipping is free. It's packaged very well and shipped fast. I buy so much from this store, I just love them.

Here is the link: http://www.vitacost.com/Bragg-Organic-R ... er-Vinegar

Lisa

MamaSheepdog · Jan 9, 2012

Lisa,

what a fascinating study! I wonder how do the babies manage to drink from valves at that height? I like the idea of having the nozzles at the rear of the cage- how did I not think of that?- but in your situation putting them on the front is the only way to go. Lots of pvc T's to buy, though. At least it's a one time expense!

My valves pretty much squirt water at the bunnies when they drink, so there isn't much work involved that I can see. They don't chew the valves or anything. When I bought my original 4 who had been raised with a valve system, mine wasn't quite finished yet so I used water bottles for a day or two, and boy did I have frustrated rabbits constantly chewing and tugging away. I had to actually squeeze the bottles for them several times a day in order for them to get any satisfaction.

bunnygal · Jan 9, 2012

MamaSheepdog said:
Lisa,

what a fascinating study! I wonder how do the babies manage to drink from valves at that height? I like the idea of having the nozzles at the rear of the cage- how did I not think of that?- but in your situation putting them on the front is the only way to go. Lots of pvc T's to buy, though. At least it's a one time expense!

/quote]

This study was done on rabbits used for medical testing at Jax lab. There were no babies in the cage for the height to be an issue. I currently have a flexible tubing auto water system and have 2 valves on each of the cage. One at 8" off the floor and one that's 2" off the floor for the kits. Once I change to ridgid tubing, I may put the adults valve at 8" and put a bowl down low for the kits. Not sure; still have to work that detail out.

Question? What feeds your water lines? Is it gravity fed from a 5 gallon bucket, or is hooked into a hose line? Not sure how i'll manage that. Right now my system is gravity fed from a 6 gallon pail.

Lisa

MamaSheepdog · Jan 9, 2012

"Once I change to rigid tubing, I may put the adults valve at 8" and put a bowl down low for the kits."

When you T off your lines, install two valves on each at the desired height.

In observing your does, do they prefer the higher placement?

I have a 2-3g pail fed from our irrigation lines. Obviously, when fed continuously the volume of the bucket matters little.

My breeding schedule - look ok?

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