Vienna

[Cspr]

Okay, so I'm honestly curious:

Why isn't Vienna accepted in any breed? It makes absolutely no sense. Brokens (Enen), Dutch (enen dudduw), and Hotot (En_ duwduw) are all accepted. Certain incorrectly marked individuals, such as charlies, booted, Vienna-looking dutch, and broken dutch aren't accepted across the board, but that's acceptable. These white-spotting patterns have rules and regulations, but are accepted.

So why not Vienna? It could have rules and regs attached. "Must have blue eyes and white on nose; preference on animals with white blaze, neck ruff, and feet" or something. Then you could even have broken Viennas, which I have to say are absolutely gorgeous. They would have something like "Must have blue eyes with colored bands; should have less than 10% color, preference on spotted or checked, blanket a fault."

-shrugs-

Thoughts everyone? I have a Vienna rabbit and I adore her blaze and blue eyes; I think she's gorgeous. I don't know why there isn't some breed or breeds that accept the variety in some way. It confounds me. XD

 

[Dood]

Mis-marks have always meant disqualification, even when obvious scars turn hair white, so what is to prevent someone from entering their non Vienna chestnut with a snipe in the Vienna group? Or their non Vienna black with a lot of stray white hairs into the Vienna class?.

Vienna carriers cause enough problems for people getting rabbits with disqualifying marks in later generations, I really don't think the gene needs to be encouraged.

 

[Cspr]

Hmmm. Well, there would have to be rules against that, wouldn't there? If it were to be introduced.

Well, maybe it could be a breed all its own, like Dutch or Hotot. -shrugs- I was just curious, anyway. XD

 

[paintrider89]

Perhaps a breed should he developed for people who like the markings and genetics? I mean it sounds like a lot of work to develop a new breed, however I see the pull to Vienna markings. Out of my breeding herd. My keeper Jr.s included, two non viennas. One is a pedigree dutch buck, and a mix breed broken doe, who is bred to a buck who is in a vc. Broken line. I see the attraction of the viennas, blazes and white legs are incredibly cute as far as pet animals are concerned. I am finding that mine sell fast (two litters so far, both over half sold before weaned, others gone less than a week. It's also a good way to put white on my Harleys for really flashy looking tris. Irk, but seems to do the trick for me in my area (people wanting pets don't seem to want the big breeds popular to my area,) pet buns move well around here.
Anyhow, sorry so off topic. But I agree. They are very cute, and it would be neat to see them more pro actively looked at as good, likely in a breed who allow brokens ect.

 

[Cspr]

Yeah. Definitely a good way to move pet animals. Who can deny the innate cuteness? I know one lady who basically makes a living breeding special "blue-eyed" buns. -chuckles-

I may as well add this to my list of experiments. I'm already a bit mad science about rabbits, let's see what I could do with trying to perfect Vienna markings. -rolls eyes at self- Will need more holes...eventually...sooner rather than later... XD

 

[HoppinHalfPints]

Mis-marks have always meant disqualification, even when obvious scars turn hair white, so what is to prevent someone from entering their non Vienna chestnut with a snipe in the Vienna group? Or their non Vienna black with a lot of stray white hairs into the Vienna class?.

Vienna carriers cause enough problems for people getting rabbits with disqualifying marks in later generations, I really don't think the gene needs to be encouraged.

The SOP could specify that all Vienna marked animals MUST have blue eyes. That would solve that problem.

Well, guess what. The gene is there, and it is very common. Even without it being a recognized color, people are still breeding it into their lines.

I personally would support VM becoming a color, or even a new breed.

 

[paintrider89]

If there were a vm breed, I would get into it. With my pet lifts it is so exciting to wait for a litter, because there are so many possibilitys, from a simple dot on the head all the way to a kit with 4 boots and a blaze. I cant wait to breed my vm Jr doe. Probly to a blue vm....

 

[Cspr]

Yes. Blue eyes would be a requirement, and that way a wonky Dutch or the examples Dood used wouldn't be possible.

I might have to keep it as a side project. I already have a VM doe. And it's not like it's hard to find white-spotted, 3-5 lb. kits homes. Everyone loves 'em. I'll have to keep it as an idea. I mean, I guess I'm breeding castor (and maybe black, opal, and blue) Mini Rex. No litters yet, but that's what my stock should throw. 75% will be broken, VM or VC, or broken Vienna. I went for type and fur first, since those rank highest in my breed. I've had my little booted black buck and I have Anwen, my American Sable doe, but everyone who comes over fawns over Primrose, my castor VM doe, the most. She's the youngest, yes, but they're like, "Look at her eyes! Look at her blaze!" She's a heart stealer. XD

If I'm going to be working with VM/VCs a lot and maybe get into BEWs (I plan to keep Primrose's best son to replace his father as the main herd buck), I may as well keep it on the back burner.

If there was a breed that was Vienna and BEW (VCs and non-Vs sports), what traits would you want in it otherwise? Weight, fur/ear/body type, varieties outside of pattern, etc.? -infinitely curious about everything-

 

[paintrider89]

Yes. Blue eyes would be a requirement, and that way a wonky Dutch or the examples Dood used wouldn't be possible.

I might have to keep it as a side project. I already have a VM doe. And it's not like it's hard to find white-spotted, 3-5 lb. kits homes. Everyone loves 'em. I'll have to keep it as an idea. I mean, I guess I'm breeding castor (and maybe black, opal, and blue) Mini Rex. No litters yet, but that's what my stock should throw. 75% will be broken, VM or VC, or broken Vienna. I went for type and fur first, since those rank highest in my breed. I've had my little booted black buck and I have Anwen, my American Sable doe, but everyone who comes over fawns over Primrose, my castor VM doe, the most. She's the youngest, yes, but they're like, "Look at her eyes! Look at her blaze!" She's a heart stealer. XD

If I'm going to be working with VM/VCs a lot and maybe get into BEWs (I plan to keep Primrose's best son to replace his father as the main herd buck), I may as well keep it on the back burner.

If there was a breed that was Vienna and BEW (VCs and non-Vs sports), what traits would you want in it otherwise? Weight, fur/ear/body type, varieties outside of pattern, etc.? -infinitely curious about everything-

I may be wrong. But don't dutch also carry a blue eye gene of sort? I could have sworn I had seen someone post a picture of a blue eyed dutch on here.

If Vienna became a breed, I would like a mid sized rabbit (big believer in duo purpos animals). It would be neat to see broken viennas. I have one, and they are quite neat. Lots of white but don't have to be charlie, would have to accept harley pattern to truely convert me. I would think a easy to take care of, short, soft fur would be best for a pet focus.

 

[LauraNJ]

The Vienna is a breed overseas.

Have to come up with a different name but go for it. I think this is partly why rabbits are so fun, you can play with mixing this and that and try to develop what works for you.

Keep us updated if you experiment!

 

[Cspr]

Really? Neat. Do you have any links?

Well, we could always call them the Austrian then. XD Or something. I'll think on it. -puts on thinking cap- And, yes. Rabbits are quite brilliant like that.

I will. Here's a candid picture of my current VM doe for anyone who wants to see:

Seriously, who can deny that? :lol:

 

[Dood]

But don't dutch also carry a blue eye gene of sort?

Yes they do. There are two versions of the dutch gene "duw" which gives more white and "dud" which gives more dark areas. A "dudduw" usually gives the proper markings while a "duwduw" will have more white and often blue eyes and "duddud" will have less white.

More info - http://www.amysrabbitranch.com/Color&Ge ... 0Hotot.pdf

 

[paintrider89]

So blue eyes wouldn't be ble to completely keep people from cheating and entering part ditch animals.

Also, since I would love some blue eyes on my place, I'm gonna have to play with my viennas and my dutch, see what we can do....

 

[LauraNJ]

I currently have 2 litters of what should be VM. I bred 2 blue beveren does to my BEW beveren. Both litters should be VM.

One litter, all have some spot of white, some just a few hairs but most a dot on the nose. One kit I can't find any marking now so the blue is covering it.

2nd litter has no VMs. I do have a pointed vm but otherwise, the other 7 (5 blues, 2 lilacs)kits not a white hair on them, so far nail color is correct, eye color is correct. If I didn't know who I bred I would say I have a normal blue beveren litter.

I am breeding back to BEWs to strengthen them genetically, that is why I did the breedings but I will say I am tempted to take a lilac or blue and breed to a blue buck just to see what I get next generation. To see if at that point I get wrong nails or wrong eye color.

I find the Vienna gene very interesting.

 

[paintrider89]

I took two very minimal vm. Both blue, bit were fauther and daughter and crossed them. I got 10 VM kits, all pretty strong boots, blazes, ect. 9 blue 1 Harley with a star. I can't re do that breeding, as the buck was lost this summer. But I am going to cross the doe to a young Harley buck, and see ifbi can get some tri harleys

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

A breed is defined as two animals that reproduce themselves(consistently).. breeding any vienna to any vienna isn't going to accomplish that.. the BREED standard that would have to be written up covers a whole lot more than markings or colour as well. Why not just a "mutt" class then? Also Dutch pretty much fill that niche where the markings are concerned. Try breeding Dutch for show and see how hard/frustrating THAT is.

 

[LauraNJ]

I took two very minimal vm. Both blue, bit were fauther and daughter and crossed them. I got 10 VM kits, all pretty strong boots, blazes, ect. 9 blue 1 Harley with a star. I can't re do that breeding, as the buck was lost this summer. But I am going to cross the doe to a young Harley buck, and see ifbi can get some tri harleys

See now that is odd. 2 VM should not have had all VM. You should have had some (1/4) BEWs, (75%)solids, some being vc and some not vc along with some vm.

Genes are fascinating with how they work and what matches up.

 

[Cspr]

A breed is defined as two animals that reproduce themselves(consistently).. breeding any vienna to any vienna isn't going to accomplish that.. the BREED standard that would have to be written up covers a whole lot more than markings or colour as well. Why not just a "mutt" class then? Also Dutch pretty much fill that niche where the markings are concerned. Try breeding Dutch for show and see how hard/frustrating THAT is.

Sorry to upset you. I do quite like Dutch, but Dutch have their own genes (dudduw) that make them look the way they do. Why should Vv be put in a corner? And I know good and well it takes a lot more to make a breed than breeding two cool looking rabbits together and then saying their offspring is a new breed, Lauren. Most wannabe-breeds take around ten years to become a breed, if not even longer.

This was all a bit of fun. But if I DO ever decide to attempt to make a breed which has its main quality in Vienna markings, I would make a very detailed standard and be a heck of a lot more serious. Right now I'm trying to breed Vienna out of my MR. :lol: However, I can't say I don't like the minimal white spotting and sky blue eyes. Not too useful in MR, but, well, they're nice looking. Makes me think of those blue-eyed cats that were found in Mexico and are being worked on to create a breed. To me, Vienna is really nifty. Common, but nothing much has been done with.

I do like Dutch bunnies, though. Very cute and I understand how crazy hard it must be to get their adorable little markings. But imagine if it were reversed? Vienna rabbits were already accepted in the ARBA, but Dutch weren't. Wouldn't you want the Dutch to become a breed, seeing how much you seem to care about the breed?

Just food for thought.

 

[paintrider89]

I took two very minimal vm. Both blue, bit were fauther and daughter and crossed them. I got 10 VM kits, all pretty strong boots, blazes, ect. 9 blue 1 Harley with a star. I can't re do that breeding, as the buck was lost this summer. But I am going to cross the doe to a young Harley buck, and see ifbi can get some tri harleys

See now that is odd. 2 VM should not have had all VM. You should have had some (1/4) BEWs, (75%)solids, some being vc and some not vc along with some vm.

Genes are fascinating with how they work and what matches up.

That's what I thought. Unless my vm animals are something else. But I have posted many pictures on here and people call them viennas. Maybe I will breed the same doe to a different vm male. Is there such thing as false Vienna?

 

[ckcs]

I'm a sucker for vienna marked rabbits. I have two does that I regularly breed that are vienna marked. I don't have a vienna marked buck (yet) so no BEW. I have a single booted black that I just adore. I'd love to get a black with 4 marked boots. If one ever shows up in a litter, I'm definitely plan to keep it.