Velma lost another kit

[Comet007]

I haven't looked at each kit, but I found the ONE solid one in the litter, a little black doe, expired today. Boo! At least it is cooler today, so it didn't smell as much. The kits had pushed it into the same corner again, too. The runt that Velma had rejected at kindling is doing very well - she looks nice and fed. So now Velma has 8, so that should be more manageable for her. Daphne still has all 10, and their colors are starting to come in! The white/charlie kits are funny looking, half white/half pink.

This is the black doe who died today - the litter is two days old.

 

[Zass]

8 and 10 are good sized litters still. I hope the rest do alright for you.
It sounds like a normal progression so far, and normal losses from does who have lots of kits.

It's funny how those runts can hang in there! I've watched the little 1/2 sized runts pull through so many times and catch up with their siblings, it kind of amazes me when I hear people talk about culling them.

 

[Comet007]

I know, I was gifted a Malamute when I was 16 from a friends parents who bred them. I got my pick of the litter and chose the runt - she was close to 100 pounds before she was a year old! Turned out to be a massive dog.

The black who died is the same size as the runt that was originally rejected - they were both 1 1/8 oz yesterday. All of Velma's babies are very similar in size, ranging from 1 1/8 oz to 1 3/4 oz yesterday - 1 day old. Daphne's babies are split, half are over 2 oz and half are under at 2 days old yesterday. Pretty much all of Velma's kits are smaller than most of Daphne's kits at this point. Daphne does have a couple that don't look like they're getting much to eat, and there are three or four who are huge in comparison. I will talk to DH when he gets home, but I think we might hold those jumbo babies out tonight so the others have an opportunity to eat.

I know that many think we should just let nature take its course, but we only have twelve litters a year to get our meat, so if we can intercede and save a baby we will. There was one that I originally thought to cull - was it in Daphne's litter? I think so. Mainly that was because it was not moving around much and I didn't like the idea of it just withering away, it seemed very weak to start. It did have more energy the next time we checked them, but that might be the kit that looks the scrawniest at this point. Weird to be making decisions about killing a living creature - it doesn't come naturally, even if it might be the kindest thing to do. Each little loss is just a little sad.

So far DH hasn't had to deal with expired kits, except the ones at birth, which somehow aren't as sad. I know he's happy about that!

 

[Zass]

Weird to be making decisions about killing a living creature - it doesn't come naturally, even if it might be the kindest thing to do.

Yeah, you said it there. I have a hard time letting them die. I go way out of my to keep infant mortality as low as possible. I bring kits in on really cold nights, hand feed if necessary, we only cull if they are obviously suffering.

The only danger I know about with keeping those largest kits out is actually taking too many, and leaving the poor doe engorged.
I did that once with a really heavy milker.

 

[Comet007]

That's a really good point. She has 10 kits, we're thinking we could hold two of the largest out tonight, then take two different large ones out tomorrow night, then evaluate where we are. That would still leave her nursing 8 at a time and not having the same buns missing a meal two days in a row. I imagine that once they get to a certain point even the little ones should be okay, the trick might be knowing when that is!

 

[the reluctant farmer]

What about moving one of Daphne's to Velma? Give each nine?

 

[Comet007]

What about moving one of Daphne's to Velma? Give each nine?

Thank you! I thought about that, but Velma's kits are so small as it is, and since she's lost two already, I'm not sure giving her another one would be a good idea. I don't know why the two kits died, if she doesn't have enough milk yet or what.

We really didn't like the idea of holding some out, so we decided to see if we could flip Daphne and let the two smallest kits nurse. Both of them had lost weight since yesterday. So my husband held her in his arms on her back, and I kept my hands cupped over the two little ones for warmth and let them nurse. I've read that a lot of does won't let their milk down, but Daphne did! The original runt (the one I considered culling in the beginning) didn't have much energy at first, so I thought she wasn't strong enough anymore to nurse, but the other one was frantic and going to town! The runt revived right in front of us after she got the first bit of milk and went from very weak sucking motions to really putting some ummph into it!

I guess we will see tomorrow how they do. If we need to we can do it again tomorrow night. Daphne was a real sport about it, she would just lift her head occasionally to look down at the kits. Afterward she got her pumpkin seeds, which she loves - she always expects to get them whenever we have picked her up or anything else that disturbs her. She is quite the character, and a good mommy to boot!

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't cull runts. If they are healthy they will catch up. If the doe is a good milker, she can raise 10, even if she needs some extra calcium to help her along.

i used to have a doe, that no matter how many she had, she would only raise six. They just seemed to die mysteriously until she only had 6

 

[PSFAngoras]

I won't cull any kits unless I see a physical deformity that prevents them from functioning properly. I've only ever had to do it once with a kit that had a nasal cavity deformity, almost like a cleft pallet. It couldn't nurse.

As far as the wee ones, I wouldn't pull anyone out, like Zass said, you migh leave the doe with too much milk. I flip my does and let the runts have a chance. They've always let their milk down for the kits, but it might help too that my rabbits are VERY well socialized and love to be handled, so they don't stress when they're flipped.

 

[Comet007]

If you look at post #7, that's exactly what we did! She did let her milk down. While she doesn't love to be picked up, Daphne has gotten to where she barely struggles, and she's used to being put on her back because that's how we trim her nails and how I palpated her all three times. :lol: We actually couldn't stand the thought of choosing a couple buns who would MISS a meal, so we thought we would try letting them nurse solo first, and I'm so glad it worked! DH checked them this morning, and all 10 of Daphne's kits are still alive - Yay!!

I'm going to weigh those two this evening to see if they've gained or lost weight, we will probably give them some more solo time with mom for a couple days until they catch up with the next smallest kits.