Rabbit color breeding questions

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

So I have a rabbit who is otter and i want to breed her to a brk buck as that's all I have that's not to closly related and i am trying to avoid booted babies so I was wondering if this cross would produce booted (i am making a chart of their parents etc)

Her dad is a broken black with broken background
Mom is otter with otter and solid back round
I know if they don't have brk in the back round then yes they will have booted but if she has brk in her back round will she still have booted babies??(i know you can't tell for sure and one is ok but I am trying to avoid them not that I dislike them or anything.
Sorry if this sounds confusing I can try to reexplain if you like!

Also I have some sort of related buck and doe who I want to breed but I don't want to weaken them by inter breeding to much so I have another chart ish thing

Bo x ????=
Pippin (baby of bo x???) + Bo=
Hyzenthlay(baby of cross)+ Fido(out cross and un related ) =
ACE.now can i breed ace back to his mom hyzenthlay?? Or will this cause problems??(internal etc etc??)




Thanks in advance

 

[PSFAngoras]

Kind of hard to understand your post, sorry but I'll help what I can.

Broken is a gene that is not really carried, in a sense. If they have one copy of the gene, they are broken. If they have two copies of it, they are charlies. It is one of those few genes that don't hide at all, so if your doe is not a broken then she will not carry it.

I think, though I'm not entirely sure, that broken is a gene that is fairly heavily controlled by modifiers. Hence, if you don't have the modifiers that tweak the gene to be booted, you shouldn't get booted. (Assuming your definition is a heavily colored broken that is basically only showing white on it's belly and feet, and a bit on the face) Dood can help you more with that part. Another gene that is fairly heavily responsible for the booted look is the Vienna gene, but it's hard to say if yours is broken or a Vienna sport without a pic.

Also, as to your question on breeding your buck back to his mother, it is perfectly safe. This is known as line breeding, and is one of the best ways to bring out a certain desired trait or to create a breed. It may also strengthen bad genetics too, so its best done with only your healthiest stock. Mother/son and Father/daughter is usually normal, as the kits are only half related to each parent. Full brother and sister is used too sometimes, but is not recommended as their identical genetically and problems can crop more easily. I wouldn't recommend it for more than one generation.

 

[caroline]

I know that there is the story that breeding closely related animals will "weaken" them.
I don't think it's quite that simple. What actually happens is that you are more likely
to manifest the recessive genes that way. Sometimes recessive genes are the cause of undesirable traits [like diabetes in humans] but often this is the way that we get the recessive traits that we want in animals/rabbits, like brown, dilute and otter. All these genes are recessive to the dominant ones: Black, Dense, Agouti.

I am not afraid to breed litter mates to each other, to breed mother to son or daughter to father, because that's how you intensify traits that are already there. I would not do this if the rabbits were not healthy robust specimens, showing the traits that I want to intensify. And with rabbits, if you don't like the results of your breeding, you can always eat them and try something different next time. It's pretty quick with rabbits

Hope that gives you something to consider when making your breeding decisions.

As for the booted question. I'm not sure about what causes that. I have not had/seen it in my rabbits and I often breed broken to solid, or even broken to broken, as well as breeding solids that are out of broken back to another broken.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Thanks so much guys!!! Especially on the mother son thing as they are kinda close so I just wanted to be sure Thanks.
PSF I know I thought it was a bit confusing to lol but I wrote it so not hard for me lol.
So I was basically trying to avoid booted babies but I guess I will just breed em and see what I get??

Thanks again for all of your help

 

[skysthelimit]

I do those crosses as well. Booted seems to be a modifier, and will cause the bun to throw booted or heavily pattered kits for either, sometimes. I haven't had any booted Rex yet, I've had booted Mini Red. I have one broken buck, and he is bred to solids from solids all the time. Best wishes and hope you get kits to post picts of here soon.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Ya now that I'm a member here I will be posting pics of my babies etc!! but won't be breeding until February 2014 ish so when I see kit pics it makes me happy lol

 

[Dood]

I know if they don't have brk in the back round then yes they will have booted

Not so, it is a myth that breeding a nicely marked broken to a solid rabbit who has no broken in its background creates booted kits.

Booted is a rare modifier and it can easily hide in non-broken bloodlines but is still very rare. Having a perfectly marked broken with the modifiers that create a butterfly on the nose and marks mostly along the spine instead of a cow pattern is also hard to get but has been bred towards by broken breeders and these genes are more common than booted which is a disqualification in most breeds.

Without knowing what sort of broken pattern the buck or their ancestors had it is impossible to tell if booted is even possible.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Well booted ain't rare in my herd lol that's why I'm here asking cause I get sooooooo many at least 2 per litter ,breeding solid to brk at least what I've bred so far and I know they are not showable so I want to reduce the amount as cute as they are cause I think pet owners are running out in my area lol.
I have had no booted babies breeding brk to brk but always solid to brk never fails

(i always like to put little side notes or whatever but this is not being typed in a nasty or angry way at all)
Thanks for the help

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

.... What's booted, and why is it bad... ?

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

I wouldn't necessarily say booted is bad it's just not showable. It when a broken rabbit is more than 50% colored like only a white belly feet,chest and maybe on the head

.... What's booted, and why is it bad... ?

 

[Dood]

Well booted ain't rare in my herd lol

if this is the case then your solid and broken blood lines must carry the modifiers, which it is just crummy luck since most solid to broken breeding produce well marked kits.

if she has brk in her back round will she still have booted babies??

It would depend on the type of broken. Breeders rarely specify on the pedigree if its a Charlie, false Charlie, broken or booted. If her broken ancestor was nicely marked then the chances are she doesn't have the booted modifiers but they could be in the same boat you are and getting booted and broken so possibly passing on both types of modifiers.

If you want the booted genes gone you're going to have to remove any solid rabbits producing booted kits and try not to keep kits who had booted siblings.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Ok I don't want together to confusing or anything but what are modifiers??(if it has to with genetics then that would explain why I don't know lol)
Ok well my bucks parents are bis bob winners so I doubt they are charlie or booted right?and what is a nicely marked one?(cover on back head eyes nice ears etc)right? Does my buck maybe have to much color and that makes em turn out booted?? Anyway don't got to vet into a huge maze about this.
Oh that reminded me I have a doe who is black and comes from both brk parents so if I breed her to a brk then will that lessen the chance of booted??(if it's to confusing just leave it out!
Thanks!!!

Well booted ain't rare in my herd lol

if this is the case then your solid and broken blood lines must carry the modifiers, which it is just crummy luck since most solid to broken breeding produce well marked kits.

if she has brk in her back round will she still have booted babies??

It would depend on the type of broken. Breeders rarely specify on the pedigree if its a Charlie, false Charlie, broken or booted. If her broken ancestor was nicely marked then the chances are she doesn't have the booted modifiers but they could be in the same boat you are and getting booted and broken so possibly passing on both types of modifiers.

If you want the booted genes gone you're going to have to remove any solid rabbits producing booted kits and try not to keep kits who had booted siblings.

 

[Dood]

my bucks parents are bis bob winners so I doubt they are charlie or booted right?

right, they should have the non booted modifiers/genes.

I have a doe who is black and comes from both brk parents so if I breed her to a brk then will that lessen the chance of booted??

yes, she should have the genes/modifiers you want as long as they were not booted.

Does my buck maybe have to much color

possibly, can you post a picture?

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

I guess I will just experiment with them then nd with a cross I don't get booted I will stick with and breed
Yes i will get pics from my computer <br /><br />__________ Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:20 pm __________<br /><br />Here are some pics of him.
I added a few so you can see his head and body and of course cant add only 1 lol

 

[skysthelimit]

No, he is heavily marked, but not too much color. Looks like just about 50%. I have a preference for heavily marked rabbits.

 

[Dood]

But could he be a source of booted modifiers and really be just an excessively white booted?

To me be looks suspect but I don't have a lot of experience with booted, my broken to solid breeding always come out with more than 60% white..

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Ya I thought that cause I look on other Mr breeders and they are always breeding brk to solid and they get beautiful stuff and me ya a nice one here and booted galore lol.
I thought he was a bit heavy but he had a back patch and white so he looked ok to me and he is my main herd sire and the best so I don't think I am willing to give him up just for a few booted babies.
But to a brk he produces nice stuff I just don't have 10,000 brk to breed to as my main color is otter I think lol.
I probably asked this a million times but if I bred him to a solid doe with a brk back round would you guys think I would have better luck??

Thanks so much for your help

 

[Dood]

Yes.

IF

The doe is not from booted brokens

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Thanks!!

Yes.

IF

The doe is not from booted brokens