Preventing ketosis in overweight doe

[BC Belgians]

Finally bred my 7 mos Belgian Hare doe. Breeders assured me that Belgians can not conceive until they are 10 mos old. Having had no prior experience, I took the advise, while my beautiful junior doe turned into a butter ball. Finally I decided to put her with the buck.

Now I am looking at a possible risk of this doe getting ketosis (pregnancy toxemia). Although she needs to loose weight, I continue to give her a small amount of rolled oats twice daily to keep her blood glucose levels up.

Does anyone have experience with this? I really don't want to loose this doe or the babies!

Here she is on her date with the buck. She is 11 lbs. although maximum for this breed should be 9 lbs.

 

[akane]

I've never had trouble reducing concentrate feeds on a fat rabbit even when pregnant. I just feed a grass hay (usually more like cubes because Iowa does not grow grass hay) so they always have food but practically no fat. I don't see why she'd need oatmeal. Cut the fatty foods out, give a proper measure of pellets, or a good grain mix with the right fat and protein if doing pellet free feeding, and fill in the gaps with a low energy food like grass hay or fresh forage (introduce carefully and avoid rich young grass and plants that will be high in sugar). Increase exercise if possible. For while they are in their cage put a board or pvc pipe across the middle just high enough they have to jump a little and then put food and water on opposite ends. If the cage is long enough they will get exercise jumping back and forth several times a day.

 

[Zass]

Her size may have more to do with genetics or optimum growing conditions than body fat.

My understanding is that your rabbits have plenty of room for exercise, which can only help. I also understand that they get almost unlimited grass hay? It's good.
I'd keep feeding the oats (if it's truly a small amount) if she doesn't get too much pelleted feed, actually, if I were you, I'd keep up whatever you are doing. Your rabbits look great, and your fryers didn't look to fatty. You probably don't have much to worry about.

Just watch her closely for loss of appetite, because it will likely be your first obvious warning sign if anything is going wrong.

 

[BC Belgians]

I don't see why she'd need oatmeal.

Thank you akane. The oats provide a source of starch to maintain glucose levels in the blood. Without a source of starch, the liver metabolizes non-carbohydrate sources in a process called glycogenisis to maintain essential blood glucose.

When body fat is metabolized to convert the glycerol component of fatty acids into glucose, too much fat can infiltrate the liver (potentially causing liver failure) and ketones are released in quantities toxic to the body. Excess ketones is what causes ketosis and produces the symptoms like going off food and behavioral changes. If starch is maintained in the diet (like feeding oats), the body will not need to resort to metabolizing body fat.

The reason why ketosis occurs in late pregnancy is that the growing fetuses require large amounts of glucose and sometimes the diet does not provide sufficient glucose to meet the needs of the growing kits and the doe. Underfed does are at risk due to inadequate nutritional uptake, and fat does are at risk as they may metabolize too much body fat. <br /><br /> -- Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:30 pm -- <br /><br />

Just watch her closely for loss of appetite, because it will likely be your first obvious warning sign if anything is going wrong.

Thank you Zass. If that happens, what then? Trip to the Vet for IV glucose? Dose her with "Ketamalt"? I guess oral propylene glycol wouldn't be appropriate for rabbits, right?

 

[akane]

No I mean I don't see why you need to maintain glucose to that extent. It is not normally a problem in rabbits and most are fed a much more limited diet. Your rabbit isn't even visibly fat. I had a mini rex probably at double the proper weight because of genetics and early diet. She was a singleton and fat from the day she was born. The only way we got any fat off her was to breed her and not feed her much beyond hay. In the end we decided to cull her because it is just so hard to get weight back off them and who knows how much was genetic but she had 5 litters with no issues in that time. Most of my does I free feed pellets and hay with definitely no need of oats even when back to back breeding during good weather. I only use oats as a bland transition food or part of a grain mix replacing pellets. There is the rare one that needs it for the fat and kcals to maintain body condition. If they have a pellet most don't need a supplement and I definitely would not supplement a high fat food to an already fat doe. I see no proof it's necessary from my litters or hearing anything from anyone else who has been breeding a long time.

 

[Zass]

If that happens, what then? Trip to the Vet for IV glucose? Dose her with "Ketamalt"? I guess oral propylene glycol wouldn't be appropriate for rabbits, right?

Also from here:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_ ... bbits.html

Ketosis

(Pregnancy toxemia)

Ketosis is a rare disorder that may result in death of does at or 1–2 days before kindling. The disease is more common in first-litter does. Predisposing factors include obesity and lack of exercise. The probable cause is starvation. For some reason not well understood, there is anorexia. Other signs are dullness of eyes, sluggishness, respiratory distress, prostration, and death. The most significant lesions are fatty liver and kidneys. The body mobilizes fat and transports it to the liver to be broken down for energy, thus the fatty liver. Diagnosis depends on clinical signs and necropsy lesions. Injection of fluids that contain glucose may be helpful in correcting the disease. Breeding junior does early, before they become too fat, is also helpful. Hairballs in the stomach are often a factor in ketosis.

Speaking only from the perspective of experience. I do not believe this condition is rare anymore. It may have been at the time it was written, or at the time that whatever material was referenced was written.

I find the reference to hairballs is particularly interesting, because it's frequently mentioned on here that hairballs may be result of a slowed GI tract instead of the cause.

I have dealt with a lot of overweight does, and I actually feel my pellets are fattier than my oats are. The purina pellets here are REALLY fatty.

If I just keep them eating what they need, they never seem to get to the point of metabolizing too much fat.

Pellets are almost always the first things my rabbits reject when they aren't feeling well. My theory is that pellet rejection (and feed refusal in general) puts more does into ketosis than most people realize.

If they refuse to eat pellets I give oats, boss, hay, maybe some pumpkin seeds, herbs and greens and a mineral lick. So far, with good results. If they still refuse, dropper feeding things like mashed pumpkin blended with oats has worked for me. Most breeders have their own routine to get a finicky rabbit to eat or a slowed GI tract restarted.

I've also had at least one one non-pregnant doe go into it ketosis from feed refusal caused by the stress of repeated moving and a feed switch. Her liver was on the left.

Her body cavity was stuffed with fat, despite her feeling thin from dehydration. I feel that I still could have saved her, but I didn't really want to breed that kind of sensitivity into my lines, or deal with a doe that obese.

Back to the original question, if I'm truly worried about ketosis in an anorexic pregnant doe, my own favorite way to supplement glucose (only when I feel it's absolutely necessary) is to add a tiny bit of light corn syrup to a rabbit's water. Others use molasses mixed with oats. One person mentioned a glucose product sold for larger livestock. There are more ways, probably a different method for each breeder.... Haha, just keep in mind a little goes a long way when it comes to bunnies. Supplementing too much glucose, or at the wrong time, could lead to a bacterial imbalance in the GI tract. Potentially causing more harm than good.

Or...You could take your doe to the vet instead, and do whatever they say. The results would really depend of how experienced your vet is.

 

[akane]

There was nothing off about the really fat doe we had or her kits when we butchered. I haven't had any other rabbits get noticeably fat. I breed pretty heavy and do colonies when possibly so mine actually tend to be on the lean side to the point they don't even compete well against cage raised rabbits that are posed to the mostly commercial type. It would be less of an issue with an arch breed and with upright posed netherlands.

 

[BC Belgians]

No I mean I don't see why you need to maintain glucose to that extent. It is not normally a problem in rabbits and most are fed a much more limited diet.

Oh, okay, I now get what you meant.

Your rabbit isn't even visibly fat. I had a mini rex probably at double the proper weight because of genetics and early diet. She was a singleton and fat from the day she was born.The only way we got any fat off her was to breed her and not feed her much beyond hay.

Mine was a singleton, too, and fat from the get go. We initially called her Maggie, because she was like a little maggot. Anyway ... she really smartened up as a 3 month old, but then she turned chubby again without actually eating that much. I thought lactation would knock that fat off her.

I definitely would not supplement a high fat food to an already fat doe.

So, when you say "high fat foods" you mean foods that put fat on the rabbit rather than being high in fat. Right?

I guess the trouble is that feeding even low food value forage like hay and straw adds significant energy to the rabbit's ration via bacterial fermentation in the hindgut? <br /><br /> -- Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:55 am -- <br /><br />

I find the reference to hairballs is particularly interesting, because it's frequently mentioned on here that hairballs may be result of a slowed GI tract instead of the cause.

The Merk Veterinary Manual is a common reference for us, too, and I was surprised, too, to read the thing about hairballs. I thought it was pretty well established by now that hair in the rabbit's alimentary tract is perfectly normal and doesn't present a problem unless a degree of GI stasis is present - which, as we now know, is largely due to insufficient forage/fiber in the diet.

I would think that GI stasis can lead to ketosis when the rabbit stops eating, but energy is still required by the cells.

My theory is that pellet rejection (and feed refusal in general) puts more does into ketosis than most people realize.

I think a lot of these cases are accepted as sudden death syndrome with unknown cause. Rabbits are not valuable enough to investigate further.

I've also had at least one one non-pregnant doe go into it ketosis from feed refusal caused by the stress of repeated moving and a feed switch. Her liver was on the left.

I remember that!

Supplementing too much glucose, or at the wrong time, could lead to a bacterial imbalance in the GI tract. Potentially causing more harm than good.

Oh yea, that. Easy to loose sight of the big picture. I am possibly concerned for no reason, and will undoubtedly gain more experience with this in time the good ol' "live and learn" fashion.

 

[dangerbunny]

I wouldn't stress too much, I would feed her free choice grass hay and small amounts of whatever you normally feed (pellets or grain), an exercise pen is a good idea and make sure she is hydrated.

 

[skysthelimit]

I wouldn't stress too much either.

I've dealt with it twice, loss the litter, saved the doe.

I do keep electrolyte solution on hand for anyone who goes off feed. Boss and oats are notorious for putting weight on rabbits. If the bun is overweight, I would not feed either one.

Oats and BOSS are notorious for putting fat on a rabbit. If