okay...someone has lots of silver fox or dwarf experience ?

[Sinnfox]

So I have definitely decided to remove my big silver fox doe from my breeding stock. She once again failed to take care of a litter. I just fostered out the kits..Well I had two other does kindle so I thought it would be ok.

Based on the size of the kits in order for them to have a chance they got to go to my little doe Squirrel...who is a lion head her kits are actually a little bigger. The size didn't strike me as odd till I compared them to pick the right doe to give them to. All of my silver fox kits have been that size.(so far it was the only doe I had old enough so they were all hers) The one survivor from her fist litter is only about 4 pounds and around six months old :/

So here is my question...is it even possible for a silver fox to carry a dwarf gene? i know they aren't listed as being carriers of it but could it have popped up on its own somehow? I don't plan to breed for it, as I mentioned the doe in question is going to be taken out of the gene pool, but it seems really odd and wasn't something I thought could happen.

 

[skysthelimit]

anything is possible, as SF numbers dwindled and people bred other things into the lines.

But my holland kits were the same size as the Re kits when they were born, I put them together, it became pretty obvious at 2 weeks who was the dwarf and who wasn't.

 

[Cottie]

My two does kindled within 4 days of each other. At 3 weeks, I was certain Minnow's would be full on dwarfs - I even had a peanut in the litter. Her kits were half the size of Mrs Howell's. Now, they're approaching 6 weeks and Minnow's are half again as big as MH's. :?

I believe it was Dood who told me in another thread the effects of the dwarf gene aren't well understood on larger breeds. It seems possible to me, given my weird mutt litters, that the dwarf gene can lie dormant in larger mixed breeds. It doesn't seem to be affecting them as they get older, though.

 

[skysthelimit]

True because they had o get the dwarf gene from somewhere. The larger buns were progressively bred down by selectin.

However, you can't judge breed size by newborn kit size all the time.
the hollands, MR, Jersey woolies, Angora, Rex and SF all had the same size kits, the two larger breeds had smaller size kits when the litter was 6 or more, sometimes. the hollands had big heads and were always tort, but it was not immediately obvious who was what breed for a week or so. At three weeks the hollands, Rex, JW and angoras are still about the same size.

 

[Sinnfox]

I wouldn't worry so much if it was just that they started small but caught up...they never seem to catch up..the current litter is the third litter out of her...the survivor of the second (yes one each litter lives so far >.< another reason she goes) is also tiny. Growth is about the same as it's older brothers was :/ If these don't ever catch up even with a good little foster mom then I'll know for sure something is up with them

 

[skysthelimit]

Oh, you mean they are older than two weeks and the same size?

Yes, had some Rex like that. Culled them all. I also had siler fox that just stopped growing. But never nearly as small as my dwarfs.

 

[Sinnfox]

current litter is only a few days old...but yeah the survivors from the past two litters are tiny little bucks :/ I don't have high hopes for this litter since anything out of her seems to just fall over dead randomly >.< but I want them to at least have a chance...if two weeks is a telling point I'll try not to worry about them till then

 

[skysthelimit]

Yeah, if you don't see a noticeable size difference by then, cull.