schmitty
Well-known member
my nzw/cal doe had 12 kits on thursday. 11 good size and 1 peanut. the peanut did not make it. 1 now looks to be under fed. how many kits can be nursed? should i cull or simply let nature take it's coarse.
litter size
- Thread starter schmitty
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Schmitty,
I'm not sure but I would guess it has to do with the doe both physically and tempermentally. The doe may have many teats but only a few that work properly, or she may be one that only feeds once a day and it's a fast in-and-out procedure so that only those that latch on first get fed. I have a first time mom who had 7 and is now fostering 6 other kits who lost their mom earlier this week. So far the fostering has lasted about four days so far and I think they all look great. The kits are 11 days and 7 days old now. However this doe feeds at least twice a day and sometimes I finish feeding before she leaves the nestbox if I catch her in action, so as long as 15 minutes, maybe more.
You could try checking out the posts to increase milk production. Maybe if production went into overdrive she'd be forced to feed more oftan or stay longer which would increase the chances of everyone getting a chance to eat.
Good luck
I'm not sure but I would guess it has to do with the doe both physically and tempermentally. The doe may have many teats but only a few that work properly, or she may be one that only feeds once a day and it's a fast in-and-out procedure so that only those that latch on first get fed. I have a first time mom who had 7 and is now fostering 6 other kits who lost their mom earlier this week. So far the fostering has lasted about four days so far and I think they all look great. The kits are 11 days and 7 days old now. However this doe feeds at least twice a day and sometimes I finish feeding before she leaves the nestbox if I catch her in action, so as long as 15 minutes, maybe more.
You could try checking out the posts to increase milk production. Maybe if production went into overdrive she'd be forced to feed more oftan or stay longer which would increase the chances of everyone getting a chance to eat.
Good luck
Depends on the doe. They actually don't have all the same number of nipples nor do they produce the same amount of milk. Poorly fed kits can still survive just fine. I have a doe who never feeds her kits to round but if they grow shiny coats and are at least straight without ribs sticking out and wrinkles (aside from maybe right before being fed again) they survive. Many though do cull because the others grow bigger, faster and you actually get more meat sooner that way than trying to raise the maximum kits a doe can care for.
The one that died would have been a runt, not a peanut. Runts are normal, but undersized. Peanuts occur in the dwarf breeds and have a genetic flaw that usually results in death within days. An important distinction.
Does do vary in the number they can effectively feed, but it is not totally dependent on the number of nipples. Kits move around during feeding so usually any kits that are strong enough still get some milk. The problem is that one that gets shorted can get too weak to compete in a large litter and falls further behind. Sounds to me like this may be the situation here.
Some people cull, some people let nature take its course, and some people give the kit a supplementary feeding or two by flipping the doe over and letting the kit nurse.
Actually, I much prefer a doe that produces a consistent 6-9 kits per litter. They grow better and there are fewer losses and no need to intervene.
Does do vary in the number they can effectively feed, but it is not totally dependent on the number of nipples. Kits move around during feeding so usually any kits that are strong enough still get some milk. The problem is that one that gets shorted can get too weak to compete in a large litter and falls further behind. Sounds to me like this may be the situation here.
Some people cull, some people let nature take its course, and some people give the kit a supplementary feeding or two by flipping the doe over and letting the kit nurse.
Actually, I much prefer a doe that produces a consistent 6-9 kits per litter. They grow better and there are fewer losses and no need to intervene.
Nipple number is still going to play a part. A doe will only stay in place for 5-10mins. If you've got 10 kits on 4 nipples and an impatient doe that leaves after 5 mins even moving around they aren't going to get much in that time because less than half can feed at once giving them only a couple minutes so milk production would need to be very high risking mastitis. The big ones will keep pushing the small ones out as well until they are full. If you've got 8 nipples nearly every kit is on one for the full time, you only have a little moving around, and the bigger aggressive kits will fill up and let themselves sink to the bottom of the pile for the small kits to wiggle up and get a quick feed. Most meat breeds though do seem to have at least 6 nipples so this doesn't become a problem until you get past 9 or 10 kits for most. My checkered x NZW doe threw 16 recently though.
For some reason my champagnes have trouble beyond 5-6 kits. I think it's a milk amount problem, they build small nests so the kits can't spread out to feed well, and they are very aggressive feeders so if someone falls behind in just one feeding they are dead because the others will cram them out. The creme d'argent raises 8-10 regularly but they are never completely full. I think she gets nervous and hops out too soon. She's bottom of the colony order. They are always straight not round but they always survive and after 3 weeks old catch up to everyone else.
For some reason my champagnes have trouble beyond 5-6 kits. I think it's a milk amount problem, they build small nests so the kits can't spread out to feed well, and they are very aggressive feeders so if someone falls behind in just one feeding they are dead because the others will cram them out. The creme d'argent raises 8-10 regularly but they are never completely full. I think she gets nervous and hops out too soon. She's bottom of the colony order. They are always straight not round but they always survive and after 3 weeks old catch up to everyone else.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Heart has a litter of 11 kits, and though two are noticeably smaller, they seem fine. I tried to let nature take it's course, and they are all still here.
hoodat
Well-known member
The best my senior doe ever did was 13 kits which she raised without any problems or losing much weight to nursing but that was a surprise. Most of the time she has 8 to 10. If you are in doubt about the milk supply 10 healthy kits are better than 12 scrawny ones. You can only hope you have a mama you can foster the extras to. If not you just have to swaller hard and cull; not easy to force yourself to do.
ohiogoatgirl
Well-known member
thanks for this topic 
i dont have any super large litters or enough moms as i would like to. but glad to have the knowledge in case i ever do needs it.
i dont have any super large litters or enough moms as i would like to. but glad to have the knowledge in case i ever do needs it.
Frosted Rabbits
Well-known member
a hint-- genetics for good mothering-- including milk production and nipple numbers, can be passed on through the buck-- So, when looking for a replacement buck from within your own herd, keep his mother's habits in mind!!! Ha can pass it along to
his daughters!
his daughters!
