Interesting kit colour - help?

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seashore

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We have a litter of 7 Standard Rex, and the colours of two of them have us a little stumped!

The mother of this litter is the sable chinchilla featured in this post https://rabbittalk.com/threads/chinchilla-rex-at-last.36724/, and the father is a black self chinchilla. This is the first breeding for both of them.

The five babies across the middle were straightforward to identify - self blue, black chin, black chin, sable chin, and sable. The one at the back we think may be either a dilute sable or sable tort (both parents have to be Ee). However we're stumped as to the one at the front - it's light and quite creamy, agouti markings are clearly visible around its eyes, but there's a reasonable amount of colour on its ears and tail. Dilute sable chinchilla????

Any ideas and comments welcome!
View attachment 40833
 
seashore said:
We have a litter of 7 Standard Rex, and the colours of two of them have us a little stumped!

The mother of this litter is the sable chinchilla featured in this post https://rabbittalk.com/threads/chinchilla-rex-at-last.36724/, and the father is a black self chinchilla. This is the first breeding for both of them.

The five babies across the middle were straightforward to identify - self blue, black chin, black chin, sable chin, and sable. The one at the back we think may be either a dilute sable or sable tort (both parents have to be Ee). However we're stumped as to the one at the front - it's light and quite creamy, agouti markings are clearly visible around its eyes, but there's a reasonable amount of colour on its ears and tail. Dilute sable chinchilla????

Any ideas and comments welcome!
View attachment 40833
Click to expand...
I can't get the attachment to open, but it sounds like you might be describing a frosty aka frosted pearl <A_B_c(chl)D_ee> or a sable point <aaB_c(chl)D_ee>, which I suppose you could call a sable tort, but I've never heard it called that.
 
I had so much trouble even getting that message to post, I'm not surprised!
Let's try again...
View attachment 1000062750.jpg

We've had plenty of frosties in past litters, and none of them have looked like this.
I'm wondering if the back one might be aa B_ cchl_ dd E_ and the front might be Aa B_ cchl_ dd E_? (Clearly I'd better stick to genetics codes and not guess at what the names might be 😂 sorry for the confusion)

Any other ideas?
 
seashore said:
I had so much trouble even getting that message to post, I'm not surprised!
Let's try again...
View attachment 40846

We've had plenty of frosties in past litters, and none of them have looked like this.
I'm wondering if the back one might be aa B_ cchl_ dd E_ and the front might be Aa B_ cchl_ dd E_? (Clearly I'd better stick to genetics codes and not guess at what the names might be 😂 sorry for the confusion)

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...
The kit in back: I could believe dilute sable aka smoke pearl aaB_cchl_ddE_.

As for the kit in front, I still think it may be a sable frosty A_B_c(chl)_D_ee, basically a non-extension sable chin. Here's an image of a sable frosty Holland kit (from https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guide):
1712478799395.jpeg
There can be quite a range of "frosting" on frosties, and they do look different if they're sable c(chl) frosties instead of chin c(chd) frosties. Your kit just doesn't seem to have the bluish tinge to its sepia that marks a smoke pearl dd, at least not in the photo I see on my screen.

You know their sable chin dam carries one non-extension e (inherited from her blue point sire which you said in an earlier post was AaB_cchlcddee), so if your kits' self chin sire also carries an e, that would account for pointed or frosty kits.
 
Alaska Satin said:
The kit in back: I could believe dilute sable aka smoke pearl aaB_cchl_ddE_.

As for the kit in front, I still think it may be a sable frosty A_B_c(chl)_D_ee, basically a non-extension sable chin. Here's an image of a sable frosty Holland kit (from https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guide):
View attachment 40847
There can be quite a range of "frosting" on frosties, and they do look different if they're sable c(chl) frosties instead of chin c(chd) frosties. Your kit just doesn't seem to have the bluish tinge to its sepia that marks a smoke pearl dd, at least not in the photo I see on my screen.

You know their sable chin dam carries one non-extension e (inherited from her blue point sire which you said in an earlier post was AaB_cchlcddee), so if your kits' self chin sire also carries an e, that would account for pointed or frosty kits.
Click to expand...
Thank you Alaska Satin!!! Glad I was on the right track with the one in back, and thanks for the correction on the name of the colour.

Yes, that little sable frosty Holland is not unlike our wee kit, and the self chin buck has to be carrying one e, so we'll go with sable frosty for now and I'll update here at a later date if the adolescent coat doesn't match that description.

Expertise much appreciated!
 
Yes that'll be a sable frosty - you also have sable agoutis there and a siamese sable. To use BRC terms as you're in New Zealand which follows British Rabbit Council standards, it's a frosty point (unstandardised), and agouti sable/sable agouti (also unst).
 

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