First time rabbit moms, any tips?

[MewsicLovr]

Hello everyone. I've been a casual lurker for a while and I appreciate all the advice! I am still relatively inexperienced.

I would like to ask for some tips and thoughts. We have two New Zealand does, both first time moms (they are sisters). They are roughly 5 months old. One gave birth two days ago to 6 kits and the other gave birth last night to a litter of 10 (!), which we split into equal litters of 8 for both. Both kindled inside their nestbox. The litters both seem healthy as far as we can tell. Both does pulled fur but got about half of it in the box and half out. We gathered it together and put it in the box. So far, everything seems to be running almost too smoothly, after hearing all the stories of how first time moms usually lose their litters. It is too soon to tell if they are actually feeding them, though the kits I did check out look very plump.

The only concern I have about the kits specifically is it doesn't appear the does were very diligent about cleaning them. They have some blood staining on their bodies that is consistent with birth. Is that something to be concerned about? Should we clean it off ourselves somehow?

However, I'm primarily concerned about the behavior of the does. While they were pregnant, they were very sweet and would let us pet them without issue. However, now they are much more high strung and will grunt whenever we put our hands in the cage. One is VERY skittish and will aggressively jump at us if I attempt to scratch her cheek (they usually love that). She will still let me pet her nose if I'm very careful and slow about it. They are allowing us to check the nestboxes as long as we are very careful not to disturb the does.

My question is, is that normal? Is there anything I can do to help, other than just keep talking to them and giving them some attention? Thanks in advance!

 

[Bandits Bunny Farm]

Its fairly normal for does to have a change in behavior during and after pregnancy. As for the blood stains, it shoud go away in the next few days. Congratulations on your litters

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hi Mewsic!

:welcomewagon:

Glad you finally decided to come out and join the party!

So far, everything seems to be running almost too smoothly

It sounds like your NZ's come from some production lines that were culled for good mothering skills.

The only concern I have about the kits specifically is it doesn't appear the does were very diligent about cleaning them. They have some blood staining on their bodies that is consistent with birth. Is that something to be concerned about? Should we clean it off ourselves somehow?

I always check the kits right after they are born, and sometimes find ones that are still bloody and wet. Fur and bedding tends to stick to them when they are like that, so I always clean them up. I just warm a towel in the dryer before starting and then simply dip the kits in a bowl of warm water and gently rub the blood off, pat dry, and place in the warm towel.

If they are a little blood stained but nothing is stuck to them you don't necessarily need to do anything about it... but I myself prefer to clean them up anyway. They look nicer that way and there is always the possibility of the smell of blood attracting flies, ants, or larger predators.

However, I'm primarily concerned about the behavior of the does.

All does are different when it comes to behavior after kindling. I have found that with my rabbits I can tame a skittish doe by petting her in the days after she kindles. Nursing moms release a hormone (prolactin) which helps them to bond with their young. It is often called the "feel good hormone" because it creates a feeling of loving euphoria. By handling them at this time that feeling is also associated with you.

I would just gently stroke the does on their ears and back when you go out to feed or check on the kits.

Giving the does a tasty treat to keep them occupied while you remove the nest to look over the kits will give them a pleasant association with your handling of their babies.

:congratulations: on your first litters!

 

[MewsicLovr]

Thank you for the info! That is basically all we are doing right now. We just talk softly to them and pet them as much as they will let us. We actually have had a few other litters with our "veteran" mom, so this isn't our first time with kits, but it is our first time with inexperienced does, so I wanted to help them out as much as I could.

The warm towel and water idea is a good idea. We may do that this evening when we check them again if they are grungy.

 

[CDiana]

i have 2 sister doe's as well that had their first litters. one today and one june 23rd. the first one had 8 and the 2nd had 6 today. didnt check tonight to see if there were any more. my sweet doe is ok during the day except when I feed her, she attacks the food scoop. at night it is a different story, she attacks everything. she lost 1 kit the first week. really hoping she doesnt lose any more. there is one Japanese kit that is smaller than the other kits. my other doe has always been grumpy, both before pregnancy, during and now that she has babies. unfortunately she has a hard to attain split face. but seems like all the harlequin breeders i've talked to say the same thing, when they finally get a split face doe she is always grumpy I give my does oats as a treat when i check the kits. i give them fresh dandelion greens and flowers during the day to help with milk production and give them as much pellets as they will eat.

 

[Miss M]

Welcome, Mewsic! :hi:

It isn't always a bumpy ride at the beginning; I was one of those for whom everything went smoothly for a rather long while. Eventually, you'll hit some sort of situation somewhere. But for now, enjoy and learn, learn, learn!

 

[MewsicLovr]

Today I took all of them out individually and checked them over. They all seem like plump happy kits, and they've been cleaned up! When I got them all together in the temporary cooler I was using to count them they started jumping around like crazy. So I guess they are being well taken care of.

One of our does has gone back to being very sweet, the other is still a little temperamental, but she seemed better when I first checked on her. She should be fine I hope. They both had no problem with me checking out the litters.

-- Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:24 am --

I actually have a couple of semi-funny unrelated anecdotes. I may have mentioned, we have 3 production does right now: the 2 new ones as discussed, and an older one named Sugar who's been around the block many times. She's a really good mom and loves attention.

Anyway, Sugar's litter of 7 is now just over a week old, and they are getting to be HUGE, and also they are quite the explorers. I think every single day since they were born I have found at least one of her kits roaming around the cage on the wire when I go check on them. Thankfully, I have caught them in time before it became an issue, though a few times they have been a little chilled but alive, and now when it happens I don't worry as much since they have their fuzzy coat now.

There was one time I went to check her kits like normal. We keep their boxes in the back corner where it is hard to see them, so I have to move the box up front to check them out. This time I was specifically looking for a thinnish one I had seen earlier and I wanted to make sure it had gotten its share of milk after the evening feeding time. I check - yup, everyone seems fine, good. I put the box back in the corner and hear a pained squeak. Oh no! Did I catch one of their feet? ...no, no one seems distressed. Are they all there? 1-2-3-4-5...6? Wait, where's the other one? I finally move the box back to the front again and...oh no! I didn't see that one had somehow gotten out of the box and gotten stuck between the box and the side, and when I moved the box back I squished it! I picked it up and made sure it could move its feet. Luckily, it seemed to be ok and when I put it back in the box it happily snuggled up to the dogpile, so it should be fine.

Last story. Yesterday I was up late and decided to go look in on them. Our setup includes a 4-hole homemade hanging cage - the hole on the end is a little bigger for our grow out buns, and the other 3 are for our does. Sugar's hole is between the other two new moms. I was just about ready to leave when out of the corner of my eye I see a small white kit crawling around in the grow out cage! That's not just one cage over, that's a full two cages over from where it should be! How in the world did it get all the way over there? This wasn't a little one either, this was one of the larger kits in the litter. I'm amazed it was able to fit through the wire. I put it back and immediately set out to make some baby saver wire and will finish that today.

-- Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:18 pm --

I'm sorry to bump this again. We have a new problem. Today the temperamental doe (Mopsie) had a bloody discharge of some kind on her resting pad. There was also a thin streak of blood on the tarp under her cage we use to catch manure, like she had leaked some blood. We checked her vent and the only thing that seems off is that it seems a little swollen. There was no bloody stain or anything. She may have already cleaned herself. It's been over 24 hours since kindle. What should I be worried about? Unfortunately my wife already cleaned the pad before I thought to take a picture. I can take a picture of her vent if it would help.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Last story. Yesterday I was up late and decided to go look in on them. Our setup includes a 4-hole homemade hanging cage - the hole on the end is a little bigger for our grow out buns, and the other 3 are for our does. Sugar's hole is between the other two new moms. I was just about ready to leave when out of the corner of my eye I see a small white kit crawling around in the grow out cage! That's not just one cage over, that's a full two cages over from where it should be! How in the world did it get all the way over there? This wasn't a little one either, this was one of the larger kits in the litter. I'm amazed it was able to fit through the wire. I put it back and immediately set out to make some baby saver wire and will finish that today.

If they can fit their head thru the wire, they can get their body thru it too....

-- Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:18 pm --

I'm sorry to bump this again. We have a new problem. Today the temperamental doe (Mopsie) had a bloody discharge of some kind on her resting pad. There was also a thin streak of blood on the tarp under her cage we use to catch manure, like she had leaked some blood. We checked her vent and the only thing that seems off is that it seems a little swollen. There was no bloody stain or anything. She may have already cleaned herself. It's been over 24 hours since kindle. What should I be worried about? Unfortunately my wife already cleaned the pad before I thought to take a picture. I can take a picture of her vent if it would help.

Bump away, it's why we are here... That sounds like normal discharge, it's only been 24 hrs. Just watch her and if it continues, she may need antibiotics for a uterine infection.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Her vent is swollen because she is ready to be bred again. Does are very receptive just after kindling.

I was just about ready to leave when out of the corner of my eye I see a small white kit crawling around in the grow out cage! That's not just one cage over, that's a full two cages over from where it should be!

The same thing happened here last week. I have a mini Rex doe and one of her week old popples had traveled two cages over, and was in a cage with a Rex buck! My young kits never venture out of the box that early, so I was really surprised.

Luckily I have a few cages with baby saver wire, so I moved them. I also put them in a metal nestbox with a lip to contain them- but the next day that little kit was out again! The others soon followed, and after a couple of days I gave up on putting them back.

I put it back and immediately set out to make some baby saver wire and will finish that today.

I am thinking of using the plastic wallboard used in commercial restrooms as a barrier. Cut into 4" strips and ziptied to the wire it should be very effective and will double as a urine guard.

 

[MewsicLovr]

Is it a common practice to breed right after kindling? From the research I had done, a lot of people wait at least a month, usually longer. We had decided on 3 weeks after kindle.

If y'all feel that breeding right away is fine, we're certainly ok with doing that. These are meat rabbits, so the more the merrier.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I don't breed that intensively, but if a doe loses her litter in the first week I rebreed immediately.

Many commercial breeders customarily breed back right away, and in a colony the bucks are sometimes so eager that they wont even wait for the does to finish kindling. :x

You might want to wait until after this litter to try it though. That way you can see how well they keep their condition while nursing a litter.

 

[Zass]

From my experience, production-line rabbits are sometimes better off being bred-back sooner. Otherwise, they can put on too much weight in between litters.

The easy answer is to simply watch your does, and re-breed whenever their condition is right for it.

 

[MewsicLovr]

Sorry if these are dumb questions. My wife is very concerned that her milk will dry up if we rebreed right away. Specifically we are talking about Sugar, our older mom. We'll go ahead and wait on the younger ones. We do feed them a small BOSS supplement daily. I think that should be enough. She doesn't think it will be. What do you guys think?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Her milk wont dry up. In the wild it is normal for a rabbit to get bred right away. She will wean her current litter at about three to three and a half weeks old.

I think as long as she is free fed her pellets she will be fine.

 

[MewsicLovr]

We went ahead and put her in with our buck. She lifted up and wanted to be bred immediately! Sometimes in the past it takes a try or two.

Our buck is so dumb, half the time he tries to mount her head first. We had to turn him around the right way. Then he went about two seconds and fell off. It's always so funny. Then he stamped to let us know he was done. "K, get her out now!"

 

[Miss M]

Then he stamped to let us know he was done. "K, get her out now!"

It's more like, "Yeah, I can get it done! What a manly buck I am! Ladies, take notice!" :roll:

If you leave the doe in there, he'll breed her as many times as you and his stamina will let him.

 

[MewsicLovr]

Well, 1 week update, things are going great. Haven't lost any kits, every time I go out there they are all snuggled in a puppy pile and irritated when I poke them to make sure they are alive They are all fat and happy. I pick some of them up and half expect them to barf all over my hand they are so fat! Mommas are clearly taking good care of them. Most of them are REW but 3 of them are a silvery-black mix, they look a lot like mini chinchillas. They are very cute.

 

[Miss M]

Glad they're doing well! We love holding them at that age.

They won't barf, but you'd be amazed (or maybe you have found out) how much pee can come out of one of those little bodies! :shock:

 

[MewsicLovr]

It's funny you should mention that. Up until just now, I'd never really seen them pee before. I went out there again a bit ago, picked up one of the older ones from a different litter, and the kit peed on my hand...and peed, and peed, and peed. It must have peed half it's weight. :shock:

 

[gardenbunny]

the one reply from momma sheepdog about the feel good hormone really helped me. I had a doe that was a lil brat ever since I got her she would find ways to escape and end up in the treat bag( dried apple peels from canning apple sauce) and charge at me and grunt like shes gonna bite me( she never bite me but why the hostility). so I have been trying to bond with her after her litter and she likes me now, she used to cower in the corner when I fed her now she likes me to pet her. i'm so glad to have a nice doe now thanks for the advice!