Constantly changing rabbit plan?

[Desolim]

(If I've been posting too much, I'm sorry! )
I'm at a loss as to what I should do xD I am looking at starting a 1:3-4 breeding group for meat rabbits, and I can't decide on breed.

Originally I was going to go one Californian buck to a few New Zealand White does since they were the 'best' when researching meat breeds online.

Then I decided that this is my thing, I'm not receiving any real help on it, I should choose breeds I REALLY want, not necessarily what is the most cost effective.
So, after that revelation, I was going to have ALL Californians.

I knew what I was doing now! Yessirree!
And then when I went out to a contact's farm to buy some cages, he of course showed me his rabbit shed and I fell in love with these couple week-old giant chins.

I'd like to point out that when I initially did my research years ago into meat rabbits, I wanted chins. I just never saw any listed for sale, so I figured that wasn't likely.

So now I'm planning two chinchilla does, a Californian buck, and maybe a doe too.

Well, fast forward to today when I was SUPPOSED to pick up said buck and doe, and the person flaked on me.

*grumble grumble* Okay. So I went to look at some rabbits for sale(we were selling at a booth in the flea market) and I started asking this gentleman about the rabbits he had for sale. He had a couple of Californians and I wanted more info. I asked him a couple of questions and he'd answer them as minimally as possible and then brush me off. That really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, I am new to rabbits but not to animal breeding and sales, and when someone is proud of their stock, they will talk your ear off about it. The way he was so dismissive about my interest didn't instill much faith in the condition of his animals.

So, those rabbits are out of the question. My rabbit guy from before(who has the chins) had a young Cali buck for sale last I checked but I don't know if he got sold off in those last couple of hours last week or not(he was out of state this weekend).

So, at this point I'm looking at two giant chin does for certain.
I'm considering grabbing a brother to be my future buck but there are two problems with that.
1. That is a stunning lack of variety and while I had planned on getting a chin buck eventually, I wasn't expecting to do so this soon. I had considered the possibility of attempting to breed show-quality chins.
2. While I understand the usefulness of inbreeding/linebreeding livestock, this will be done at my (hopefully future) in-laws house, where Uncle Ken temporarily resides. And Uncle Ken strongly disagrees with my opinion on inbreeding/line breeding and he is very much of the 'there's only one way to skin a cat' mentality. I have a feeling that if anything goes wrong(it'd rabbits and I am a newbie, something is going to go wrong. No amount of reading compares to doing[in my case]) and I can see him throwing that in my face if it does.

While I still want a Californian, looking through this forum and seeing some absolutely gorgeous chocolate and blue rabbits has me wanting to change my mind. And don't get me started on satins x3 I haven't been able to find ANY local satin breeders.

So yeah, trying to figure out what to do.

 

[akane]

If you have someone who is going to give you grief every time something goes wrong you are going to have a real headache and stressful time on your hands. It's quite common for does to lose the first litter and sometimes other litters if conditions aren't right. You also run into does that do not produce well and lose too many litters and have to be culled. This is often not your fault at all. It is the nature of rabbits. Rabbit breeding is a constant fixing of things that went wrong or just didn't go right enough and working toward the best rabbits. If you are constantly bringing in unrelated blood you will have even more things for him to complain about because you will have to deal with unpredictability in every rabbit crossing. Maybe it would be best to not give him any detailed info. He does not need to know who came from what breeder and who is related. It is your project. If you can't run things that way it's going to be very hard to succeed without wanting to kill someone.

Have you tried any newsletters, online sites, facebook, or yahoo groups for your arba district? Many have some form of communication with other breeders. https://www.arba.net/links.htm Our district 3 has quite an active yahoo group. There are also clubs and groups for every breed of rabbit and the breeders who have given their info. There is rabbitbreeders.us .

 

[Desolim]

I'll check rabbit breeders.us, but I'm district 4 and it doesn't appear to be updated often. Nor do we seem to have a Facebook or yahoo group, but I'll check and see if we do and they just aren't listed on the website.
If we can make it, there's going to be a show at the end of the month, so the boyfriend and I are hoping to attend so I can see what it's like ^^

As for Uncle Ken, it is my hope that he minds his own business and that he moves out ASAP so that I don't have to deal with it. I know he means well, but he can be incredibly frustrating. I mean, to make a point about him questioning my ability to cull the rabbits, he falsified sent story about having to take a huge load to a butcher, but his sister turned around and told him(and us) that is not how it happened, they were never taking them to a butcher. I'm going to assume the best and that he just remembered incorrectly, and wasn't purposely lying, but that did make me a bit weary.

 

[Miss M]

How temporary is Uncle Ken? If he's supposed to be moving soon, maybe you can put the project off until he does.

Either way, you've got two main options:

1. Appease Uncle Ken. Buy only what he would approve of. But Akane's right, unless you are one of the ones for whom everything goes smoothly for a while at first, Uncle Ken will complain anyway. And you won't be happy, because you don't have the rabbits you wanted.

2. Run your rabbitry the way you want to, and do your best to let what he says run off your back. This is what I would recommend, since they're yours anyway. Akane's right again, yes, you can bring in new blood to improve your line, but if you are starting with really good rabbits, it's safer to get them all from the same breeder. Less chance of disease transmission as you introduce rabbits with different immunities to each other, less chance of odd problems cropping up genetically.

Whatever you choose, if you marry into this family, you're going to have to figure out a plan for dealing with Uncle Ken.

Just a word of warning... if you aren't planning to buy any rabbits at the show, make sure you take no money with you. If you do, it'll be very hard not to leave with rabbits.

 

[Dood]

My advice is don't get too many breeds until you've dipped your toe in the pond

Giants breeds that are over 12 pounds have a bunch of other issues not often seen in the lighter ones ;they are more prone to sore hocks just from their size and it is often recommended to keep them on solid bottom cages; because of their extra weight their cages must be top quality to avoid sagging wire

Other things to consider ...

EVERTHING is bigger - cages, nest boxes, they drink more and eat more and their poop is bigger too, I'm actually breeding my meat mutts down to the 8 to 10 pound range because I am fed up with "poop pancakes" (AKA cess pools) in the potty corner of my 10+ pound does due to poops getting stuck between their 1x1/2 floor wire

Dispatching the adults is hard! I can use my rabbit wringer for rabbits under 8lb but I have to use the broomstick method for larger rabbits to get enough leverage for a quick kill - if you plan to use a pellet gun it will need enough power to penetrate and stun these 12+ pounders

If it's just the chinchilla colour you like then maybe search for American or even Standard Chinchillas or you could go the meat mutt route and get all sorts of colours

Just my 2 cents :cheesysmile:

 

[Desolim]

You've got a point there.
I think I'll be sticking with the two does that I'm already committed to buying, but as for my buck and third doe(and possibly 4th at some point, I just need more cages) I not sure on breed.
I'd like something with a lot of variety, I love self blues and chocolates, but am unsure of good meat breeds that come in those colors xD

 

[Zass]

Because blue and chocolate are created by recessive genes, it will take you two generations (and inbreeding) to get those colors when you cross to most breeds (like chinchilla).

I used silver fox and Lilac to get those shades in my meat mutt line, since lilac is what you get when blue and chocolate combine.

Originally I was going to go one Californian buck to a few New Zealand White does since they were the 'best' when researching meat breeds online.

Then I decided that this is my thing, I'm not receiving any real help on it, I should choose breeds I REALLY want, not necessarily what is the most cost effective.

You would be surprised by what is cost effective in reality VS on paper. :lol:

Hybrid vigor between the two breeds often doesn't work because cali and new zealand lines are so frequently crossed with each other. Resulting in breeds that are too genetically close for the vigor thing to work.

Even papered purebreds sometimes have that problem.

 

[Desolim]

I think that I'll be getting my two chin does and then hold off and get a mature meat mutt buck and doe at the show in Duncan, OK.
If I'm still interested in breeding/showing chins, I'll get a papered buck.

 

[Fernie]

When we started our journey we got 3 does and a 2 bucks. 2 does were New Zealand Flemish crosses, 1 was pure New Zealand. The bucks were a New Zealand and a Silver Marten. We have had Flemish Giants, Harlequins, Beverens, and a few other breeds. Currently we have Satins. My husband wants to add French Lops. Our Rabbit plan changes as we learn and grow. We have lost litters, lost a few mamas, lost a few bucks. We have had snuffles outbreak. We had a doe labeled one breed and turns out she is another breed completely.