Breeding age and What affects it.

[Shara]

I am curious. Some people tend to breed later (and I agree with the idea that they are more mature and able to handle things) but some people manage to get Commercial kits to breed at five months old. That could really save some money (and make it, in fryers) if the does consistantly delivered live litters that did well at that age, I mean, that's a whole three months saved.

My does (who are unrelated) all seem to have waited till they were older to breed, I know as I keep in contact with those folks that got my herd. eight and nine months, so far.

So what is it? Is it breeding (I tend to not think so, since mine were ostly unrelated) is it the feed? What is going on that there are such different outcomes within a few breeds?

 

[avdpas77]

UI breed at 41/2 months or 8 pounds. No problem. They will continue to grow to normal mature weights. gestation is not a hardship on them, lactation can be if they arent properly fed. All my does are over the minimum standard weights and most have litters on the wire befor they are 6 months. Just about all the breeders around breed at those ages/weights. The only reason to not breed early might be because you are needing some does for a show.

I agree with longtail. My does have never been stunted by breeding at 6 months (nor have the one or two that I bred at 5 months) Of course I raise meat rabbits, highly breed show rabbits may be another thing. In my experience back in my show days, I never showed a doe after it had a litter. Waiting till after a show to breed caused me problems with many of my does.

On the comment of them not wanting to breed at 6 months, every doe I have ever raised had a bright pink vulva at 14 weeks and was yearning to breed, that is often not the case at 6 months. Most meat raisers I know breed at 16 to 20 weeks (4-5) months. that is a little early for me, but those two months count for a lot of feed if you are a commercial breeder.

So... it depends somewhat on the breed (I think smaller breeds can be bred sooner, but I am not certain of that) Most meat breeders I know breed them from 4 to 6 months, there are usually a lot fewer initial breeding problems this way. Most show breeders I know only wait to breed them older so they can enter them in more shows. I know of several "champion" does that will not breed at all, most likely because they were not bred when young. Like I said, wild and colony rabbits will usually breed at a little over 14 weeks and will be re-bred by the buck the day after kindling. That means they will be having a litter every 32 days. I have one pair that I have in a colony situation, and the doe has had kits every month for the past 5 months. Most people would not want to breed so early or often, it really wears the doe down. (I feed my [outside] colony doe a tablespoon or two of Calf Manna every morning and night, probably around 3 tblsp a day, which is 3 times as much as recomennded. just to try and keep her weight up)

I don't plan to colony raise, I simply wanted to know how to do it in case I needed to latter. It is very hard on the doe (if you leave a buck in the colony) and the kits are wild and a pain to catch. I will probably terminate my experiment come Spring, when I have had the colony a whole year. So far the cold weather has been no problem for them.

 

[Shara]

hmmm, so if I bred earlier it would probably be easier to get htem to breed, huh? I am interested to see when Spooky's kits start breeding, since I think she is older, and she really loses condition bad when she has litters.

How much does calf manna cost? I think it would do good things for Spooky (she is always skin and bones by the time the litter is weaned, even if she is in great condition to begin with).

I need to take her out of the breeding program, but she has such bomb-proof babies that I am reluctant to, until I can get a few decent does from her.

Mine are all gonna be in a colony setting, as an experiment, and I am interested to see how fast they breed in that setting.

 

[longtail]

I dont think calf manna is good for them. I feed pellets full feed until the litter is sold to the meat truck. The replacement does are cut back some but kept growing. they are eager to breed but when they are allowed to get older they put on fat, in all the wrong places and are difficult breeders.

I breed does I intend to show so they are 2 weeks pregnant at the show. They are producing hormones at this time which fill and firm the fat cells under the hide and they feel in good condition.

I show some does after they have kindled, little harder to win the top positions but they do well enuff. Ive shown Mioni Rex does after several litters and done well.

If a rabbit is always skin and bones, or just wont tone up, it should be moved along. A better one can fill its hole. After all, selection and culling is what breeding is all about.

 

[Shara]

She gets good, but is not as good as I would like, which is why I am saving her meatiest daughters (I screwed up and got attatched to her, big mistake). She will probably ride out here as a pet.
I was wondering how to keep her healthy while she is producing. At Least until febuary. As soon as I get another doe producing she will be retiring.
I don't have any plans to show, but would like her to be healthy.

Thanks for the tips, guys!

 

[DevonW]

With my meat rabbits I breed them by weight, and how they act. Just because they can breed doesn't mean they are ready to in a mature way(like teenage humans). When they're at least 8lbs and not so baby-ish anymore, that's when I breed them (usually around 6 months).

For my Mini Rex since I tend to show them a lot so most of the does aren't bred until nearly a year old depending on how many shows they've gone to and how many are coming up. Although I do breed them by molts so when one of my show doe starts to slip her coat I'll breed her (giving her a break from shows) and by the time she's ready to kindle she's in a full blown molt so when she pulls fur she doesn't damage the new coat too much, and that way once she's weaned her litter she can get back to the show tables almost immediately.

 

[longtail]

I bet if you read some in depth articles, you will find it to be a poor practice to breed a rabbit in molt. I've done it but prefer not to and try not to. molting is a stress. I want all I can get from them so it makes sense to use the best management practices.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Molting is not such a stress here for our Mini Rex because they are in good condition to begin with. Does can pull a lot of fur which they immediately start to regrow anyways.Gestation is not a hardship and nursing 4 or 5 babies is not that hard either if one feeds properly. If a rabbit is unshowable because it has a blown coat then no sense wasting time, you might as well breed. We have even won a lot of doe and litter classes as well where good condition is a must!

 

[DevonW]

[Citations needed]

I bet if you read some in depth articles, you will find it to be a poor practice to breed a rabbit in molt. I've done it but prefer not to and try not to. molting is a stress. I want all I can get from them so it makes sense to use the best management practices.

 

[randtrabbitry]

I always wait tell about 22 to 25 weeks

 

[longtail]

There are articles on the internet,. Ive spent the last 2 years researching anything meat rabbit so there is stuff out there.

molting is stressful, they are dropping their old fur and growing new. The process puts additional stress on their system using nutrients that arent used during normal daily life. Any thing which puts any kind of strain on the system is stress. Hot temps, cold temps, feed change, show, weaning kits,molting, handling, the list goes on.
gestation does not take a lot out of females but lactating does put an added strain on them, even for just a very few. Some animals are more able to cope and some rabbitries have more skilled management.

A lot of this stuff doesnt have a big impact on a few rabbits in a backyard operation, like pets, but it does impact those working to be profitable or who might be working to improve their stock to a higher degree. You know, even if you can gain 4 ounces per fryer sold, and you sell say 500 per year, it makes a difference in your bottom line. for me it would be about 150 bucks difference to the good.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

If a doe is under that amount of stress just from a molt then the chances are she would not be very fertile or even sterile.Not a good doe to keep for breeding..keeping does that retain condition through a normal molt and even through out gestation and lactation should be a goal then.

 

[longtail]

optimal conditions arent always the most practiced nor are they always the most practical. And I think your assesment is right on. Thats just a part of the selection process. But what we can see, and what is going on in the life of the doe are kinda different. We humans are more capable of handling stress(not all of us, just watch the news). We can get a warm meal, a cool drink, take a pill, or any number of things to reduce stress, the critters are held captive to what we do for them, they just hang on.
I think you know my point anyhow, only the very best management skills are gonna produce the very best animals in the end. And as breeders, not just reproducers, we strive for the improvement & promotion of the breed before our own position.

 

[Shara]

I wonder if part of the reason is the unnatural way we keep them (not saying we should all let our bunnies go free, oh no) but it passed my brain that in hostage situations and other tightly confined spces, people tend to go a little off.

 

[longtail]

well, these domesticatwed rabbits have been living in pens for how mwny generations now? I would argue that is natural for them now. they would suffer much more stress in any wide open environment, at least the 1st generation would.Each succeeding gen would be better acclimated and eventually, as all mutated types do, they would revert to the wild type.

 

[Shara]

Just wondering. I have not formed solid opinions on many rabbit related topics yet (for the record, I DO NOT agree with release rabbits to go "free") Just trying to get a feel for the various opinions out there, because how can we form our own, unless we have a variety to see what works best for us? SO thought I'd clarify that.

I am interested to see that people often do the exact opposite of others, but all have good success. Rabbits are pretty versital, I would say.

 

[ottersatin]

I have to agree that Rabbits should NEVER be set free
as they are on the top of the Prey list.
Setting a rabbit free is more often than not an inhumane DEATH sentence.
Caging your rabbits is IMPO the most humane way of properly caring for them.
It gives YOU the owner complete control over any of their needs and what may
or may not befall them. You control to whom and when they will be bred,
you also are responsible for placing nestboxes, feeding and watering whenever necessary.
It does place a lot of importance on YOU being a responsible and attentive Janitor
when it comes to all aspects of the rabbits in your herd's daily needs.
It's a DIRTY thankless job, but somebody's got to do it! :twisted:
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[avdpas77]

hmmm, so if I bred earlier it would probably be easier to get htem to breed, huh? I am interested to see when Spooky's kits start breeding, since I think she is older, and she really loses condition bad when she has litters.

How much does calf manna cost? I think it would do good things for Spooky (she is always skin and bones by the time the litter is weaned, even if she is in great condition to begin with).

I need to take her out of the breeding program, but she has such bomb-proof babies that I am reluctant to, until I can get a few decent does from her.

Mine are all gonna be in a colony setting, as an experiment, and I am interested to see how fast they breed in that setting.

Calf Manna is rather expensive, I think around $25 for a 50lb bag (varies by area) I only feed Calf manna to lactating does for the first 4 weeks or so after they kindle. Since one only gives 1 tablespoon per doe per day, a bag lasts a long, long time. (My outside doe is an exception). If the does are relatively fat, like they often are in the Fall, I might not feed any at all. It is certainly not necessary, but I think it helps with stress on their systems do to milk production.

 

[Shara]

Thanks! I will keep a look out, and maybe one of these days, give it a shot to see if it helps Spook.

 

[mountainrabbits]

Calf Manna is rather expensive, I think around $25 for a 50lb bag (varies by area) I only feed Calf manna to lactating does for the first 4 weeks or so after they kindle. Since one only gives 1 tablespoon per doe per day, a bag lasts a long, long time. (My outside doe is an exception). If the does are relatively fat, like they often are in the Fall, I might not feed any at all. It is certainly not necessary, but I think it helps with stress on their systems do to milk production.

I have seen on some breeders websites in my area that they sell calf manna by the pound out of their big bags and that made me wonder-does it ever go bad? I've never worked with it before.